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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2006
    Location
    In the Mountains
    Posts
    175

    Default Things that make you want to scream!!

    A local trainer and her client came to see my young hunter that is for sale. For four days now I have been receiving voicemails and emails itemizing their concerns about his soundness and training faults. Obviously they are interested in the horse or they wouldn't bother, but is all this insulting necessary? They beat around the bush trying to ask me to do vetting on him for them, and now have resorted to criticizing the way he is ridden (did I mention they are dressage/event rider?) I rode him the day before and the day after the showing and he was 100% sound (of course I wasn't there to see them ride). I have had this horse since he was a yearling and he has always been sound. I am not about to vet him because a potential buyer claims to have seen some mysterious bad step that I can't seem to duplicate!

    Why do trainers feel the need to belittle the seller? You either like the horse and want it, or you don't. I have looked at horses and had opinions about their training and what should be done differently, but I have always kept those opinions to myself and based my offer on what I see and know.

    Vent over, thanks for listening



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2008
    Posts
    1,522

    Default

    This makes me want to scream as well....but I guess you gotta deal with what you gotta deal with. Hopefully he sells. I would just suggest they get a PPE and ask the vet all of these questions once x-rays are done. No? Look on the bright side, if you do so, you will have a clean PPE to show people if these people ultimately aren't interested in the horse.
    ETA: am I reading correctly when you say that THEY want YOU to get a PPE done? If so, no. They want the horse, it's their responsibility to have a PPE done and it is on their $, not yours.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2008
    Location
    Millerton, PA
    Posts
    594

    Default

    Oh man, this kind of buyer is a big pet peeve of mine as well.

    Had a guy come out to look at a horse of mine and started picking about soundness "Do you see how he moves funny on his left hind". I said "No, I don't see it". About 1 minute later he made an offer on my horse, no PPE, loaded him up and went home with his new purchase. LOL

    It's just their way of trying to get you to come down on price. Can't blame them for trying I guess but don't let it work. If they are truly worried about a potential problem THEY will pay for a PPE.

    Sales are fun, eh?
    '10 Dolce Latte G - Thoroughbred Mare (chestnut at that!)
    '12 Genever - KWPN/Thoroughbred Mare



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2006
    Location
    In the Mountains
    Posts
    175

    Default

    That's basically what I said. "You are welcome to schedule a PPE, I encourage it"

    Turningpointe - I was thinking the same thing, they are prepping me for a lowball offer. The funny part is that I would be much more likely to take less if the seller took a softer approach. With this approach I feel my heals digging in pretty deep.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 3, 2007
    Location
    Central,PA
    Posts
    713

    Default

    UGhhhhhh I feel your pain, Im currently looking for a long term free lease situation for my guy. I had what seemed to be a perfect situation. We exchanged E-Mail after E-Mail after E-Mail. She wanted a head shot to see what his eye looked like..OK so we did that, then the confo shots werent good enough..: Sigh:

    Got a video together for her, and her response to the video.. do you have anything more recent..... it was 3 WEEKS old !!!

    Listen....... Hes sound, hes ready to compete, hes young and hes FREE... TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

    I just quit responding, probably not the best answer but it was pretty obvious that if she wasnt just going to take the time to come see him as it was I was never going to give her the information she needed/wanted.
    Ride it like you stole it....ohhh sh*t



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2007
    Posts
    145

    Default

    Well, at least they showed up the appointment *snort*. I'm incredibly sick of people who e-mail, call, have numerous conversations with me, tell me how PERFECT my horse is for them, Little Suzy, Client A, B or C, actually give me a timeframe that they want to try the horse, (sometimes) even talk to my trainer, make an appointment for a certain day, say they'll call to confirm, and then....

    *POOF*

    They get all Scarlett O'Hara about it and are gone with the wind. Like they never even existed. Without explanation. Or, they'll say (after I call THEM to find out why they didn't show or call to confirm, giving them the benefit of the doubt) "Well, we decided [or trainer now suddenly says] that I/Lizzle Suzy/Client A, B or C actually needs an ___________ horse [insert Dressage, Equitation, Hunter, smaller, larger, different sex, different color]. Or, "Well, we really LOVE your horse, but we've decided to shop locally..." Then why did you contact me in the first place? The ad clearly states that the horse is NOT the mystical creature you now proclaim you're looking for! The ad also clearly shows where we are located! For goodness sakes why didn't you shop locally first, before you started bugging people out of state and wasting their time?

    Yes, my horse is in the four-figures. But, I would never dream of being such a time waster and boldly expressing how rude I can be to the world, no matter what the price of the horse/product/car whatever.

    Common courtesy has become so absolutely uncommon that when someone does act like a normal, nice human being, it almost makes me want to cry with relief. What a sad state of affairs, eh? Ok, my vent is over. Sorry for going off on a tangent. Happy Holidays everyone! Be grateful for the nice, thoughtful people in your lives!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
    Location
    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
    Posts
    11,480

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    A local trainer and her client came to see my young hunter that is for sale. For four days now I have been receiving voicemails and emails itemizing their concerns about his soundness and training faults. Obviously they are interested in the horse or they wouldn't bother, but is all this insulting necessary? They beat around the bush trying to ask me to do vetting on him for them, and now have resorted to criticizing the way he is ridden (did I mention they are dressage/event rider?) I rode him the day before and the day after the showing and he was 100% sound (of course I wasn't there to see them ride). I have had this horse since he was a yearling and he has always been sound. I am not about to vet him because a potential buyer claims to have seen some mysterious bad step that I can't seem to duplicate!

    Why do trainers feel the need to belittle the seller? You either like the horse and want it, or you don't. I have looked at horses and had opinions about their training and what should be done differently, but I have always kept those opinions to myself and based my offer on what I see and know.

    Vent over, thanks for listening
    I have a simple way to put an end to this behavior; it has worked every time so far!

    Buyer: "well, it's a nice horse BUT <insert imaginary faults here.>"

    Me: "Sounds like he's not the horse for you, then. Best of luck with your search!"

    Buyer: (stuttering) "Er, Um, Ah, well I didn't say he wasn't for US! It's just that... <insert imaginary fault here.>"

    Me: "Oh, no, seriously - you should only buy a horse you feel 100% good about. But thanks so much for coming to see him!"

    They either hang up at this point (in which case there was never going to be a deal anyway at a reasonable price) OR they stop criticizing and make an offer. So far the offers have been three times more likely than the hang ups.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    15,297

    Default On the buying end

    Drive 1.5 hours to see the young one.

    Trainer can't be found, but the WS or barn employee asks if I just want to ride it.

    No-- for six different reasons, including the fact that the seller isn't present.

    At my suggestion, the WS puts the horse on a lunge line for me while we wait for the trainer to show up.

    The horse is lame. I wait for the trainer to show up. After introducing myself, asking for a reminder about the horse's history and reminding the trainer what I'm looking for, we let the horse trot again. I won't buy a young one that needs to warm up out of lameness, but I have driven a long way and I'd like to give the horse the benefit of the doubt.

    When the animal is still lame I gently say "I think she looks a little off. Do you see that?"

    The trainer says casually, "Oh yeah, so she is." And "Sweetie, how many of these have you looked at? There's bound to be something wrong with them." Instructs the WS to give the mare a gram of bute for the next 2 days.

    Thanks for wasting my time and insulting me all in one move. How can it be "my bad" that you a) don't know if your sales horse is sound, b) I want something that is sound at least on the scheduled day of my visit?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2006
    Location
    Newtown, CT
    Posts
    1,128

    Default

    If you want to try to make the sale happen, why not have them back out for another trial, and be there so they can explain exactly what they are thinking is wrong with the horse. If they can't then I would suggest move on.

    I tried a horse, really liked it, but it was obvious something was just not right, started PPE, vet ended it. Still liked the horse, had vet come do a lameness exam. found issue. Can not imagine asking owner to pay for it!!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 2006
    Posts
    3,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucassb View Post
    I have a simple way to put an end to this behavior; it has worked every time so far!

    Buyer: "well, it's a nice horse BUT <insert imaginary faults here.>"

    Me: "Sounds like he's not the horse for you, then. Best of luck with your search!"

    Buyer: (stuttering) "Er, Um, Ah, well I didn't say he wasn't for US! It's just that... <insert imaginary fault here.>"

    Me: "Oh, no, seriously - you should only buy a horse you feel 100% good about. But thanks so much for coming to see him!"

    They either hang up at this point (in which case there was never going to be a deal anyway at a reasonable price) OR they stop criticizing and make an offer. So far the offers have been three times more likely than the hang ups.
    I'll have to keep that one in my pocket, sounds helpful!!
    Quote Originally Posted by barka.lounger View Post
    u get big old crop and bust that nags ass the next time it even slow down.

    we see u in gp ring in no time.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2009
    Posts
    437

    Default

    Sounds to me, as if they are setting you up... for a Low-Ball offer!

    Run, Run, Run!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    31,612

    Default

    How bad do you want/need to sell it?

    Because, you see, they do LIKE him. They just want to low ball it and get you to pick up an extensive PPE (like 1200 with all the pictures and bloodwork). he is out of their price range and they are trying to chew you down-and I bet by at least 30%.

    This "trainer" is acting unprofessionally by calling and leaving voicemail messages dissing the horse. The PROFESSIONAL thing to do would be to make a low offer and leave it on the table for you to consider. As opposed to telling you how bad the horse sucks for a week. Boy, talk about bad manners and rudeness.

    I anticipate they will soon ask to take him off the property without paying so they can see how he goes with "good" riding. Almost bet on it. That is the next step in this old game of convincing the seller it's a POS and all but having the owner pay them to take it.

    Anyway, they cannot talk if you don't listen. Ignore them with the voicemail and e mails and tweets and whatever. They call and want to talk, tell them to make an offer, schedual the PPE at their expense.

    Act like a professional and don't lie there and take this crap, kick them to the curb if they don't come up with an offer.

    I suggest "If you care to make an offer I will give it consideration. If not I really do not have time to continue this discussion". Then block sender/caller on any media you have.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2009
    Posts
    437

    Default

    If indeed you recieve a Low-Ball offer, I wonder what the trainers commision will be?????
    Something smells, maybe the trainer is intentionally showing their client.... horses out of "Price Range" it happens.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    31,612

    Default

    What "trainer". This is a bad mannered JAW.

    Have been around a great many sales at some hefty prices and the actual, professional trainer/agent either says "Sorry, not the one for us. Thank you for your time" or " A little out of our price range but if you would consider an offer we can schedual a PPE. Lets sit down in the office and talk".

    This whole expecting you to pay for the PPE on top of what is going to be a low ball offer while dissing the horse smacks of amateurishness. Not to mention stringing her client along by being rude to you to keep you on the hook.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2006
    Location
    In the Mountains
    Posts
    175

    Default

    I am bracing myself for the lowball offer, if she ever gets around to it. The trainer told me before coming that the client had a budget of $XX, at which point I said have her come but that is about all I can do (about a 25% discount). Trainer had already seen the horse go many times as she boards at the same barn. She said in todays email that she never saw the lameness before because when we ride him he isn't worked correctly.

    The day they tried him the trainer called me to tell me that her client liked the horse, but doesn't think he is worth the discounted price. I returned her call leaving a message that the client should make an offer and I would consider it. Now, 4 days later they still have not made an offer but continue to bash both the horse and my "style" of riding. He is a young green hunter, that is what I presented him as. He has that great Irish horse laid back mentality, a nice cresty neck, balanced way of going, and he just sticks his nose right out there the way hunters do. He is young, we haven't tried to force him into any kind of a frame, we have just tried to let him figure things out and develop into himself which he really has. I think he is just great and I am very proud of the way he has been brought along (slow and relaxed), I have worked with some great, reputable trainers throughout the process all of whom really like him.

    The trainer knows I am moving cross country and she is thinking she will get a firesale deal out of this, NOT!!! I actually have 2 more people coming to see him next week so I have basically moved on. And if he doesn't sell, he will be coming with me. If the emails continue I may just have to block them, good suggestion.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2008
    Posts
    1,522

    Default

    That's another thing that makes me want to scream...when people say the horse is out of their price range. If you didn't have the money to spend, why are you looking at my horse? 9 times out of 10 someone or something (either dealer or via website) the price of the horse has been mentioned. I knew of someone looking for horses around $15k and were inquiring about horses priced at $20K-30K. Why??? Who is going to take that big of a price cut? There's certain things that tell you if someone will go down on price...if it says FIRM, they aren't budging, if it says OBO...make an offer and see what happens.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
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    31,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    ... she never saw the lameness before because when we ride him he isn't worked correctly.
    What a jackass.

    If that client were to post on COTH and say "My trainer wants me to buy a lame horse but she says she can fix it, it's caused by bad riding. WWYD?".

    What do you suppose we would tell the client to do?

    That trainer mouths off too much about the "lame" horse, she is the one looking like an idiot for trying to get the client to buy it.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2006
    Location
    In the Mountains
    Posts
    175

    Default

    JSE

    Sounds like you have some experience some people just don't have any respect for the true value of horses, that is just a big waste of everyones time.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2006
    Location
    North Central Florida
    Posts
    1,379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMoonJumper View Post
    Well, at least they showed up the appointment *snort*. I'm incredibly sick of people who e-mail, call, have numerous conversations with me, tell me how PERFECT my horse is for them, Little Suzy, Client A, B or C, actually give me a timeframe that they want to try the horse, (sometimes) even talk to my trainer, make an appointment for a certain day, say they'll call to confirm, and then....

    *POOF*

    They get all Scarlett O'Hara about it and are gone with the wind. Like they never even existed. Without explanation. Or, they'll say (after I call THEM to find out why they didn't show or call to confirm, giving them the benefit of the doubt) "Well, we decided [or trainer now suddenly says] that I/Lizzle Suzy/Client A, B or C actually needs an ___________ horse [insert Dressage, Equitation, Hunter, smaller, larger, different sex, different color]. Or, "Well, we really LOVE your horse, but we've decided to shop locally..." Then why did you contact me in the first place? The ad clearly states that the horse is NOT the mystical creature you now proclaim you're looking for! The ad also clearly shows where we are located! For goodness sakes why didn't you shop locally first, before you started bugging people out of state and wasting their time?
    We have this happen ALL THE TIME! It makes us crazy. I mean, if you have changed your mind or something else has come up at least give us a call or send us an email to let us know...



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2008
    Location
    Poetry, TX
    Posts
    908

    Default

    I've definitely had this happen. I've gone so far as to take xrays of a fetlock on a horse I've had since he was a yearling - shockingly, nothing showed up on xray! - and then after I sent the potential buyer a vets report stating the horse was totally clean, I never heard from her again!

    People are nuts.
    Standing Nasiriya - 17h JC registered stallion
    http://www.DonovanFarm.com
    Looking to buy or sell Horse Property? Contact me!
    www.TexasEquestrianProperties.com



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