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  1. #1
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    Jun. 30, 2008
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    Default Help Please!! Researching Racing History/Pedigree of horse

    Hi,

    I am trying to research the racing history (if there is one) and pedigree of the horse I am leasing. I have no clue about how to do it. I am trying to find out for a little girl who was asking questions about it at the barn.

    He is registered with the USEA as Desert Fox. He is a 16HH chestnut Thoughbred about 16-17 years old. I believe part of his lip tattoo says 2853. He has three white socks and a blaze. Below is a link to pictures of him on facebook.

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...68&id=16920735

    Any help is appreciated; I really do not know how to look up history other than doing google searches. They are not that helpful.

    Thank you all!!



  2. #2
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    Default

    The Racing forum is your friend. Check out the Racing 101 sticky at the top and it will answer your questions. There are several pages, but lots of good information there. Some of it is outdated--the Jockey Club now offers free tattoo lookup and five-generation pedigrees. For tattoo research, I think you might have to pay still.
    Life would be infinitely better if pinatas suddenly appeared throughout the day.



  3. #3
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    Default

    Actually, you could probably figure out the tattoo for free but it would take some time.

    Equineline.com has free tattoo research, and you can do it with partial tattoos if you know all the horse's markings.

    Once you register and sign in, go to "jockey club interactive registration" Then, on the left side, there's a link for tattoo research.

    Then you have to select a letter/year of birth - since you know your horse's approximate age, you'd probably want to run several searches for different years in his age range, and with the numbers in whatever spot you think they correspond to. Then fill in the color and markings and see what you get.

    Then you can take the name and look up the pedigree on pedigreequery.com, or in equineline if you feel like it.

    For race records, you can look up lifetime past performances at equibase.com (again, you have to register). I think equineline does it too, I just usually use equibase.

    Interestingly, there *is* a horse named Desert Fox on pedigree query. He is 14 years old, but that's all the info that is there. If you got lucky and his USEF name is his registered name, he's a nicely bred fellow by Sadlers Wells out of a Foolish Pleasure mare
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  4. #4
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    Default

    I actually went and started looking for you - not getting any hits with those numbers. Are you ABSOLUTELY sure about any of them? If you are only sure about a few of them, that's fine - cross referenced with the markings it would still come up.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Michigan
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    Default

    I think you're missing a number and a letter...if you want to go to the Jockey Club for help you'll need all the tattoo you can read, plus any markings he has (including cowlicks).

    Equineline is only pulling up a 2006 G in the US, and then the next US horse is a 1985 gelding. There's a 1999 model from Australia and also British and South African horses with the same name as well. (IIRC, the Australian horse would have some sort of freeze brand--there was a thread on here a while back about an Australian TB who found his way here.) The Sadler's Wells horse is a black-type winner, according to equineline, and from brisnet he was shipped to Hong Kong in 1998 so it's almost certainly not him.



  6. #6
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    Jun. 30, 2008
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    Minneapolis
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    Default

    Thank you all for your quick response.

    Sing Mia Song- You are right, that tread is very helpful. Thank you!

    Caffeinated- Thank you for the other sites. I did see the Desert Fox on pedigree query. I just did not have any way to verify if it was him or not. The age is within the limits but it is young for what they think he is. I will try to confirm another way.

    Caffeinated/danceronice - I am not for sure about the tattoo. I think those are the middle numbers, but they are hard to read and he did not like us looking at his lip. The three is defiantly in question. I might try again to confirm. I could not even start to tell what the letter or last number is. They are very faded and hard to tell something was even there.

    He does not have any types of brands.

    What is a black-type winner?

    What is a cowlick? It is where the hair kind of swirls in different directions?

    Does anyone know if the USEA registered name is the JC registered name, or can you name the horse anything you want?



  7. #7
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    I'll run it again without the three and see if anything pops up

    OK found a bunch but the leg markings aren't quite right. You can run these with as few as two numbers, so if any of the numbers are more questionable than others, let me know and I'll drop off another too see if I get a better result.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  8. #8
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    I did find one that sounds like it could be a possibility:

    X28151 - Waiting B Red E

    "large star + broad stripe, touching right nostril and into the left nostril. Cowlick at eye level. LF - white ankle RH 1/2 stocking LH 1/2 Stocking."

    That would be a 15 yr old. Searched a bunch of other years but the markings descriptions were not quite right.

    ETA - realized that there were tons more results than what I thought, heh. Hmrz. Better read on the tatoo might help. Try taking a picture - and remember closer is not better. Stand far enough away that the picture is in focus and there's no glare on the lip. Some people have luck shining a black light in there too.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  9. #9
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    Jun. 30, 2008
    Location
    Minneapolis
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    Default

    Thank you, I will be able to recheck the tattoo on Sat. I was holding the horse and another women was reading the tattoo. I am not for sure about the other numbers.

    I will take a picture then.

    I do not know if it helps you with the markings, but he does have a brown spot between his nostrils in the middle of his blaze.



  10. #10
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    Dec. 26, 2002
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    Desert Fox (USEA name) has Mirabeau listed as sire and Lady Carlton listed as dam. There are several Mirabeau's and Lady Carlton's listed on pedigreequery.com. Not sure how to determine which ones are his parents.
    1. Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsecents View Post
    Desert Fox (USEA name) has Mirabeau listed as sire and Lady Carlton listed as dam. There are several Mirabeau's and Lady Carlton's listed on pedigreequery.com. Not sure how to determine which ones are his parents.

    ooh! good catch! I looked for progeny records on there for Lady Carlton, but none had any results. Which means nobody added it... could probably check elsewhere...

    Checking on equibase yielded:

    1993 gelding named "Vijay"
    1991 gelding named "Bachelor Numerouno"
    1989 gelding named "Kandyan Dancer"
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  12. #12
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    "Vijay" raced twice at Fairmount Park and earned a whopping $66

    "Bachelor Numorouno" raced 8 times at Farimount, Arlington, and "sportsmans" park and earned $162, blowing his younger sibling out of the water

    "Kandyan Dancer" raced 58 times and earned $9677
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  13. #13
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    There are tips on the Jockey Club interactive registration page for how to make the tattoo more legible--and yeah, some of them really hate having it read! Though I checked Lucky's the day he arrived (not that I didn't trust the seller, just to make sure) and he was blase about it. His tattoo was also more legible at 7 than my old horse's was at 4, so sometimes it's just hard to read.



  14. #14
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    Sheltona01- Try to get a good face shot showing his blaze and the spot between his nostrils when you go back to look at the tattoo. Also, does he have any white hairs through his coat, or at the base of his tail? Any spots in his leg markings? Take a look at the cowlicks on his head as well- does he have a single or a double, are they side-by-side horizontally or vertically if he does have two?

    And yes, a cowlick is a whorl of hair usually centered in their forehead- but they can be off-center as well, so make note of that too when you give us more details.



  15. #15
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    Cowlicks also occur on the neck--on the papers for TBs, they're marked.

    Oh, missed it...black-type winner refers to winning a particular class of race, as the horse's name then occurs in bold black type on sales sheets, pedigrees, etc. Stakes winners, for example. It's an indication of quality and while it's not impossible for horses like that to end up sold off for other uses if they're breeding quality they're less likely to--a black-type winner has shown they're worth reproducing, if possible.



  16. #16
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    Looks like we have a winner (provided his USEA info is correct)

    W23521 is "Vijay" 1193 gelding

    "Large star and connected broad stripe, widening above nostrils, becoming flesh colored between nostrils, into both nostrils, ending on upper lip; median cowlick at eye level. Left fore: pastern white, extending above ankle in back. Left hind: full stocking, lower on inside. Right hind: full stocking, lower on inside."

    He is an IL bred, trainer wasThomas Carley, owner was Canter II Farms. He came in 2nd to last in his first start and dead last in his second. Have no idea how he earned $66 but there you go.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by caffeinated View Post
    Checking on equibase yielded:

    1993 gelding named "Vijay"
    1991 gelding named "Bachelor Numerouno"
    1989 gelding named "Kandyan Dancer"
    And all bred in Illinois by a Dr. C.K. Fernando--might be able to do a google search and get in touch with him? I looked for records for where Mirabeau stood, but there's nothing relevant on Google and my stallion registers don't go back that far.

    OP, you might ask the mods to move this thread to the racing forum. You'll get more people over there who might remember the horse or his connections.
    Life would be infinitely better if pinatas suddenly appeared throughout the day.



  18. #18
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    I'm not sure if this is him. Where's the spot in his blaze between his nostrils? And those are 3/4 stockings, not full stockings according to the Jockey Club description.

    "Large star and connected broad stripe, widening above nostrils, becoming flesh colored between nostrils, into both nostrils, ending on upper lip; median cowlick at eye level. Left fore: pastern white, extending above ankle in back. Left hind: full stocking, lower on inside. Right hind: full stocking, lower on inside."



  19. #19
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    I missed that... but it's a pretty close match *if* the USEA info is correct.....

    Still checking searches... did find one in 1991 that sounds like a close match marking wise but not on the breeding.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  20. #20
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    The pictures show a large spot right in between his nostrils. His leg markings are also awfully close. I think it's Vijay.

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...d=679780911610
    1. Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future.



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