What stallion would you suggest for consistently improving toplines (specifically the neck set and saddle placement) and putting better canters as well as sane temperament on their foals?
Fresh or frozen
I know of Fabuleux that seem to really improve canters (not sure about toplines) Who else?
Last edited by Formosus; Dec. 3, 2009 at 02:24 PM.
Reason: more specific in what I meant by "topline."
Well, I can think of a few, but my answers might vary depending on what discipline you're breeding for.
I would stay away from most of the F-line and E-line hanoverians, as those lines are rife with less-than-ideal necksets. The W-line has that loin issue going on where they have that funny connection and tendency to drop out the back. You might find a few individual stallions in those lines that don't have the trait themselves, but if you're looking to improve I would stick with lines that are predominantly good for the traits you are trying to fix, as they have a tendency to pop up if you bring a weak mare back into the equation.
Honestly, some of favs have been Voltaire bred stallions (either 1 or 2 generations back). Consistently solid neck and topline conformation most of the time.
I've also seen a number of R-lines (particularly Rotspons) who have very good toplines. Redwine would be a good example of that.
What about Pablo? I know some of his offspring can be a little bit on the 'hot' side apparently, but I've also seen some very calm and easy going ones. I've seen some excellent toplines on Pablo offspring
I know Benidetto's offspring are still young, but from what I've seen, they have super toplines, and great canters I think he's really a neat horse, with 'different' lines. I've been so impressed by his offspring so far.
A few others you might look at are:
Fred Astaire, I have a short video of him schooling, and he looks fantastic... very elastic with three super gaits. His website doesn't have much info, but here it is: http://tomnoone.com/freddy.php
Well, no where does she mention necksets - and the two F line stallions I'm most familiar with - Fred Astair and Fielding - don't have this issue - neither do they pass it on. They both fit her criteria to a T, and i would go so far as to say that Fred Astair is a neck improver.
ETA - I have a thing about loin connections. Fred has an adequate one, and Fielding's is incredible. But then again both my mares have good ones themselves.
"No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin
Ok, sorry I guess I did not express myself precisely ennough, when I said improve topline what I meant is a strong neck connection, good saddle placement and strong well couple loins. So yes I am looking to improve the neck connection particularly. I will go an edit my first post.
Improving the canter: more lift, cadence and engagement of the hindquarters.
Stallions I know personally (ridden) and who have several foal crops to back it up - Waldaire (Waldgott/Adios III), Avebury WF (Adamant/Dekor), Ironman (Inselfurst/Wienerwald) and Again and Again (Abundance/Our Tops xx).
I recommend Dauphin. Although only available frozen, it is very, very good quality. My foal by him has a super neck set and loin connection. Out of the same mare, with a good topline, the foal by Fabuleux had a good neck set but not nearly as good a loin. The Dauphin filly's temperament is superb as well.
My Fabuleux filly has a better top line than her dam, very sweet and calm, good canter but her walk is what is outstanding. Pablo put the best loin connection on one of my foals, very good canter, shorter back and a little spice The Quaterback colt had the best canter by far, great neck set, alert and sensible.
I have been told nothing but great things of the canters of Puerto D'Azur foals and he himself scored 8 and 9s on his 100DT as well as the different registry inspections.
And from personal experience, Blue's canter is like sitting on a cloud and he has some of the most balanced changes of any horse I have ever ridden.
www.spindletopfarm.net Home of Puerto D'Azur - 1998 NA 100 Day Test Champion "Charcter is much easier kept than recovered"
I covet the Dauphin filly that Clint bred. I saw her at her inspection without knowing her breeding, thought "wow, that filly looks just like Dauphin" She's beautiful, I remember her having an excellent topline too
Hi thanks for the response,
There seems to be violent agreement for Dauphin, great, now others out there that are prepotent for those three traits?
Because it was asked: registry and dressage or jumper inclination in the said sire is irrelevant: I'm simply looking for stallion that are prepotent for those traits. As long as the stallion is liscence/approved by a major registry its ok.
Thanks but keep it coming if you still have some ideas not mentioned here.
I thought Accord II usually put some really nice toplines on his babies, now is Accord III prepotent for those same traits?
This one's easy, Freestyle! He improved all the areas mentioned in my mare. I have seen many Freestyle offspring and they quite consistently have a good topline and excellent canter, as well as ammie friendly dispositions.
I have never heard of any problems with the neckset on F-line horses. Can anyone elaborate?
Well, I'm not super sure still I know what you want on topline/canter, but fwthey're worh, I'll toss these in for consideraton
Lingh (type and mind and quite good canter);
VDL Prestige - very nice, very Holsteinery canter,
Rousseau - lovely toplines and type and gaits.
I don't know anything about what he's throwing - bc he's young - but you might want to look at Ampere and maybe ask his rep to see if they can tell what he's throwing and temperament questions. He's got lovely type and gaits himself.
Amorex foals generally have nice toplines and good canters, esp from lighter mares.
Contendro (who received a 10 for his canter and has the Calypso II lines behind him)
Blue Hors Don Romatic
Quaterback (who seems to generate strong feelings both ways here)
That's a broad range of stallions who bring lots of different things to the table and have varying strength in different areas you mentioned, but one or two fo them might be worth considering based on your list..
I have six offspring of Dressage Royal. They are consistently correct, strong in the areas you mention, beautiful and very kind. In that he has been ranked in the top 1% of all sires in Germany for the last three years, you may want to consider him. Obviously his frozen semen is first rate, and he is a Donnerhall son.
"Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist