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  1. #1
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    Default Megnetic therapy vs Infrared Heat Therapy

    There are so many alternative therapys out there that is quite confusing... Two of which I'm especially interested in are the megnetic therapy and infared heat therapy (such as Back on Track).

    Could those of you who have experiences or knowlege in either one share when/where/why you use each? Do they achieve the same result? Is either better in certain situations than the other?

    Any insight will be greatly appreciated.



  2. #2
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    Default

    Great question, and if you don't mind I'd like to extent this question with the other 2 options out there :

    Celliant (hollow fiber therapy) as in Draper Equine Products and Equipedic
    http://www.draperequinetherapy.com/i...ask=view&id=24

    as well as

    IonX (negative ion therapy) as in Sirona Blankets & wraps.
    http://store.sirona-ionx.com/pages/about-ionx.

    I already succesfully use BoT on one horse, but interested in trying Celliant for my other chap.



  3. #3
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    Default

    I have used magnetic bell boots in the past with no avail whatsoever.
    Recently I tried the BoT hockboots combined with blanket for a horse with sore hocks. At first nothing, figured waste of money.
    Then I decided to leave everything on overnight, not much happened at first either, but after 14 days of nightwear I now have a much more comfortable horse.
    It's definitely night & day difference when I tack him up. Virtually no more girthiness.
    His ringwork (circles) are better and no more toedragging going downhill, plus no more resting one hindleg crossed under on crossties, but mostly standing on all 4s.

    Love it. Only downside to me, this product produces/reflects heat which is fine in winter, but what about summer?? I have a 2nd BoT blanket for my other horse, but I can only give it to him when temps are below 30F else he sweats. Hence my interest in hollow fiber therapy for that guy, as hollow fiber does not reflect heat as ceramic textiles do. I can't comment on the celiant yet, only bought the wraps so far not the blanket 'yet' .



  4. #4
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    Default

    Lieslot, let me know how the celliant wraps go on your boy...sounds very interesting. I love BOT products, but the hollow fiber therapy sounds pretty intruiging.



  5. #5
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    Default The redneck answer

    Don't know about magnets versus infrared or sexy, heat-trapping ceramic whatnot.

    But if you want a satisfyingly cheap, DIY magnet solution, go get some little disc neodium (sp?) magnets on ebay, get some duct tape (yay-- always!), some popsicle sticks (to add stiffness and keep the magnets from sticking together in a wad), and make your own patch of any shape and size. Put that puppy on underneath the wrap of your choice.

    These are strong magnets, so don't put them in the same pocket as your celly or AmEx card.

    You'll feel like a bad-a$$ Abe Lincoln living by your raw whit and ability out on the frontier. At least someone will be getting some kind of therapy out of these products.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lieslot View Post
    I have used magnetic bell boots in the past with no avail whatsoever.
    Recently I tried the BoT hockboots combined with blanket for a horse with sore hocks. At first nothing, figured waste of money.
    Then I decided to leave everything on overnight, not much happened at first either, but after 14 days of nightwear I now have a much more comfortable horse.
    It's definitely night & day difference when I tack him up. Virtually no more girthiness.
    His ringwork (circles) are better and no more toedragging going downhill, plus no more resting one hindleg crossed under on crossties, but mostly standing on all 4s.

    Love it. Only downside to me, this product produces/reflects heat which is fine in winter, but what about summer?? I have a 2nd BoT blanket for my other horse, but I can only give it to him when temps are below 30F else he sweats. Hence my interest in hollow fiber therapy for that guy, as hollow fiber does not reflect heat as ceramic textiles do. I can't comment on the celiant yet, only bought the wraps so far not the blanket 'yet' .
    Lieslot, thanks. I'm wondering about that too... how do you cool them down if that thing is reflecting heat back to them??? Ummm...

    So you use this ceramic sheet after workout right?



  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Don't know about magnets versus infrared or sexy, heat-trapping ceramic whatnot.

    But if you want a satisfyingly cheap, DIY magnet solution, go get some little disc neodium (sp?) magnets on ebay, get some duct tape (yay-- always!), some popsicle sticks (to add stiffness and keep the magnets from sticking together in a wad), and make your own patch of any shape and size. Put that puppy on underneath the wrap of your choice.

    These are strong magnets, so don't put them in the same pocket as your celly or AmEx card.

    You'll feel like a bad-a$$ Abe Lincoln living by your raw whit and ability out on the frontier. At least someone will be getting some kind of therapy out of these products.




  8. #8
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    Default

    Your first question is "what evidence to we have that any of the questioned "alternative therapies" work at all?"

    Heat therapy has, in fact, a long history of proven clinical effectiveness. From the lowly electric hot pad through heat generating creams and lotions to "strap on" therapudic heat pads (powered by a chemical reaction) all have clinical evidence that demonstrates effectiveness and safety.

    Magnets, etc. have no credible clinical evidence to support their claims. I'd be interested in reviewing the evidence that any of the other therapies mentioned are safe and effective.

    So if you think you need heat, then it's OK. Done correctly it won't hurt and will likely help. As for the rest, you might as well be lighting your cigars with $100 bills.

    G.



  9. #9
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    Default Yeah but

    The neodium magnet patch is dirt cheap. And my DVM (who enjoys being a skeptic and reads the literature) says magnets help with fractures.

    Perhaps they also help for the bone-collagen attachments at points of origin and insertion for tendons and therefore PITA things like high suspensory injuries?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    Your first question is "what evidence to we have that any of the questioned "alternative therapies" work at all?"

    Heat therapy has, in fact, a long history of proven clinical effectiveness. From the lowly electric hot pad through heat generating creams and lotions to "strap on" therapudic heat pads (powered by a chemical reaction) all have clinical evidence that demonstrates effectiveness and safety.

    Magnets, etc. have no credible clinical evidence to support their claims. I'd be interested in reviewing the evidence that any of the other therapies mentioned are safe and effective.

    So if you think you need heat, then it's OK. Done correctly it won't hurt and will likely help. As for the rest, you might as well be lighting your cigars with $100 bills.

    G.
    Guilherme, I know there probably isn't any credible clnical evidence but I'm not ready to just disregard it yet. I know some humans swear by it (now is that real or just their wishful thinking I don't know). So I'm hoping to see whether real people have real success with them, or whether they are just another hype



  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    The neodium magnet patch is dirt cheap. And my DVM (who enjoys being a skeptic and reads the literature) says magnets help with fractures.

    Perhaps they also help for the bone-collagen attachments at points of origin and insertion for tendons and therefore PITA things like high suspensory injuries?
    Fractures? Umm that is interesting... Any idea whether it "might" work for sour tendon?



  12. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    Guilherme, I know there probably isn't any credible clnical evidence but I'm not ready to just disregard it yet. I know some humans swear by it (now is that real or just their wishful thinking I don't know). So I'm hoping to see whether real people have real success with them, or whether they are just another hype
    The plural of "anacdote" is not "data." So no matter how many anadotes you get, no matter how fervently the writer believes in the therapy, you're still completely "at sea" on whether or not it works. This means that if you go forward you are taking some major risks.

    The first is delaying of therapies that have been proven effective. This means that your horse continues to suffer while you search for the "white crow."

    Second, a dollar spent on what doesn't work means you don't have that dollar to spend on what does. If your name is Gates, Buffet, Kennedy, Kerry, Gore, etc. then you don't worry about this. If it's not, though, you should.

    Third, by supporting with your dollars an industry that's patently fraudulent you enable them to continue picking the pockets of others.

    It's your money and your horse so you get to do what you want. But you did ask for opinions.

    Regarding magnets and fractures, this is another completely unproven effect. There is a device called a TENS unit that has a proven history of accelerating the healing of fractures in humans. I don't know of any animal use. But it does not use "magnetic energy" to do what it does.

    Again, if you think you need heat then you're OK. But magnets? Just a waste of time and money.

    G.



  13. #13

    Default

    We all have our opinions, and I just want to say that if I don't wear my magnet on my back-it will hurt, put it on, my back feels great. WHY? Because it DOES create energy and circulation to that area. PERIOD. I don't really care about scientific studies...how many times have they come back on their own studies and say how horrible the 'tested drug' is for you?? Causing heart attacks, etc.? Never heard a magnet doing that. So G...while you poo poo the 'alternatives', we are healing animals. Seen it too many times to work, to say it doesn't. The proof is in the pudding. Don't need anyone to tell me if something works, I can figure it out myself.
    Equine Massage Therapy Classes and Rehab for Horses
    http://www.midwestnha.wordpress.com[/INDENT]



  14. #14
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    Default

    I'm also a little weary of magnetics as well as the negative ion therapy thingy. Some time ago I got carried away with the idea of minus ion bracelets & the likes. Thinking if all those athletes & golfers wear this, let's give it a go. So I went onto one of those online golf shops & ordered the bracelet, anklet, and necklace (TrionZ). I figured if I'm gonna do it, do it right, go for it all.
    I didn't really feel any benefit from it. Sometimes you think you feel energized, but really that was more me thinking I was.

    Here's an interesting objective opinion on the likes of neg ions :
    http://healthpsych.psy.vanderbilt.ed...neResearch.htm
    As the author concluded, it may or it may not work, not enough studies done about it. And indeed, to blame ones PH balance for it not working, duh......, I guess my PH balance must be way off then

    Imo & ime heat therapy works and from experience BoT works as far as giving the body that toasty warm feeling.

    To answer your question Gloria, I have the Rime stable blanket and a regular stable blanket which they were selling in the closeout section. I leave them on overnight, works great with the bay horse, not so with the grey horse. He sweats in it horribly. It has to be really cold for him not to sweat in it. Which does give you an indication it produces heat vs a non-ceramic blanket, coz at present he is wearing a Masta 220gm stable blanket and does not sweat, but when I put on the supposedly 160gm Back on Track blanket, he's all sweated up especially shoulder part within 2-3 hours.

    The answer for my grey might very well be to buy the BOT mesh sheet as a liner and put a lightweigth stable blanket on top. Dunno.
    The hollow fiber claims not to increase temperature, hence in his case the Draper blankets might be more suitable.

    Feetofclay1678 I used the Draper recovery wraps on my grey last night and supertight legs this morning and not warm. Temperature legs felt cooler then when I shove my hand underneath his blanket, but warmer then his uncovered tighs. I like the material, it's shiny on the outside, fluffy on the inside. They do bulk up a little more then your regular no bows under standing wraps, but I think that'll get better. When you first use new no-bows they are also a little bulkier then the ones you've been using for months.
    I may get a blanket from Draper for him, but not sure yet. These things are expensive and when you start with this for 2 horses before you know it you've spent a grant and more .

    Coming back onto BoT and are they worth the money. Hard to say. I'm raving about their hockboots for example, but if I would have used Cashel hocks with Sore No More liniment or Thermaflex liniment under it at night for the same amount of time I used the BoT wraps, it is possible the result would have been equally positive, dunno, haven't gone through the effort of it.
    Again I do now that a 160gm BoT clearly produces more heat then a 220gms Masta stable blanket in my one horse, so from that I personally conclude the ceramic fabric does do 'something'.

    Pfff, I've got to stop typing, I've got a broken finger and typing epistles with one hand, no fun



  15. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    The plural of "anacdote" is not "data." So no matter how many anadotes you get, no matter how fervently the writer believes in the therapy, you're still completely "at sea" on whether or not it works. This means that if you go forward you are taking some major risks.

    The first is delaying of therapies that have been proven effective. This means that your horse continues to suffer while you search for the "white crow."

    Second, a dollar spent on what doesn't work means you don't have that dollar to spend on what does. If your name is Gates, Buffet, Kennedy, Kerry, Gore, etc. then you don't worry about this. If it's not, though, you should.

    Third, by supporting with your dollars an industry that's patently fraudulent you enable them to continue picking the pockets of others.

    It's your money and your horse so you get to do what you want. But you did ask for opinions.

    Regarding magnets and fractures, this is another completely unproven effect. There is a device called a TENS unit that has a proven history of accelerating the healing of fractures in humans. I don't know of any animal use. But it does not use "magnetic energy" to do what it does.

    Again, if you think you need heat then you're OK. But magnets? Just a waste of time and money.

    G.
    Guilherme, thank you for your concerns. I understand that you don't know me personally so naturally you want to warn me agains the dangers and risks of using alternative therapy instead of a formal proven one. Please rest assured that it is not my intention.

    I work with my equine vet closely and I place his advices above other unproven therapies, especially when it's something serious. The thing is, most proven therapies started with anacdote... And most vets unless exposed, will disregard any unproven ones... See where I'm going?

    Oh and I'm not the kind of person that will believe everything anybody posts on a BB board. Hell, I'm not the kind of person that will believe everything any expert say on the face value either. They are valuable data I collect in my head to process. Then one day I will decide what to believe in.

    I want facts and those facts might be something that have not been proven. Of course many unproven ones turn out to be, well, simply untrue. So if anyone has used it, and found it useless, I would like to hear from him/her.

    So again thank you for your concerns. It's just that those concerns aren't really necessary...



  16. #16
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    Default

    There are some valid points being raised here and I thought I'd put in my .02.

    While many alternative therapies may not have been proven by double-blind placebo controlled studies, it does not necessarily mean they don't work or are harmful. Everything does boil down to "does the benefit outweigh the risk?". Botox has been approved by the FDA so it's safety has been studied but there's no way I'd be using a potent neurotoxin to lesson the appearance of wrinkles. To me, that benefit does not outweigh that risk. Some people may feel otherwise.

    I am a big fan of the Back on Track products. I really feel a difference when I wear them. Is it a placebo effect? It could possibly be-but who is going to fund the super expensive long term studies on an article of clothing? Pharmaceutical companies fund the studies on their drugs and it costs millions to bring those products to market. They also have a patent on the compound so some of their investment is protected as long as they have market exclusivity. That's not going to happen with nutraceuticals or magnetic or ceramic therapy so the chance of having valid scientific studies is pretty slim.

    Personally, I have not found any efficacy in magnetic therapy for myself or my horses. I've found the Back on Track line to work for both my horses and myself. Maybe for our particular ailments, it is the correct therapy. There are people who haven't had success with BOT, so it isn't a miracle cure for everything. But if I waited for a scientific study to validate what I've found or others have found anecdotally, I'd be missing out on a therapy that works for me. As long as you keep to the Hippocratic oath "First, do no harm".



  17. #17
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    Default

    Thought I'd update.
    I did end up buying the Draper Equine hollow fiber stable blanket for my one horse that gets a little sweaty in his BoT blanket.

    I'm loving it. Very nice fabric, nice fit and so far he seems quite happy in it and not building up a sweat but also not cold in it.
    Only remark I'd have is the surcingle closures are quite high up on the horse's flank, so when he lays down I'm wondering if it's causing some pressure there. They're clip-in closures.

    For those interested, Draper now also has hockboots, so kitted him out with those to go along with his wraps. .



  18. #18
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post

    Again, if you think you need heat then you're OK. But magnets? Just a waste of time and money.

    G.

    FWIW, the Abe Lincoln Ebay Duct Tape magnet patch leaves my horse's pastern *hot* afterward. Officially hot.

    I make up a story: The magnets draw crazy amounts of hemoglobin-rich blood cells down there to do their majik. Sounds good, doesn't it?

    Again, in so far as this is cheap and you can build whatever shape you want.... and your are bored, still paying board, and jonesing for action during rehab, why not try it?

    I must say, however, my DVM has never proposed the magnet cure for tendons.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  19. #19
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    Default

    If your aim is to make something WARM, by all means use some form of heating therapy. This might include magnets, solely because magnets tend to be heavy, dense, and trap heat. This in fact may be one reason why people swear by them--they are like strapping on a rubber sleeve.

    As to the putative effects of magnets on tissues, etc.--wholly unproven unless you're dealing with powerful, plug-in electromagnets. But to each their own.

    If I wanted to warm something up, I'd use the simplest and most effective means of doing so, whether that were ceramic, moist heat, thick neoprene (think neck sweats), whatever. If I want to stick something to my fridge, I'll reach for a magnet.

    if I don't wear my magnet on my back-it will hurt, put it on, my back feels great
    So much for long-term healing effects of magnets, I guess. . .
    Last edited by deltawave; Dec. 17, 2009 at 04:00 PM.
    Click here before you buy.



  20. #20

    Default

    Quote:
    if I don't wear my magnet on my back-it will hurt, put it on, my back feels great

    So much for long-term healing effects of magnets, I guess. . .
    I guess you would rather that I be on pain killers the rest of my life, or some other drug, paying for it monthly?? and have side effects that could kill me? Yep, sounds so much better. Seems that the allopathic methods have no long term healing effects either, since most medications are forever. I paid one time for my magnet, I know what's wrong, just need to get to the chiro to get it fixed.
    Equine Massage Therapy Classes and Rehab for Horses
    http://www.midwestnha.wordpress.com[/INDENT]



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