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  1. #1
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    Jan. 24, 2008
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    Default Interesting study about belly spot heredity

    I found this interesting article about belly spot heredity.

    http://stud.epsilon.slu.se/515/1/eken_helena_091001.pdf

    Here is the conclusion that I found interesting:

    The second hypothesis was that horses with belly spot (SWB) or horses that show splashed white (Icelandic horses) are homozygous while the heterozygous individuals show extensive white markings. From this study it is not possible to say that the individuals with belly spot or splashed white coat color are homozygous but the frequencies of horses with those traits and the most likely inheritance pattern indicate that horses with belly spot are homozygous.

    I have a Swedish Warmblood buckskin sabino colt that has a belly spot and I am expecting his first foal crop next year. I'm very curious to see now if they will all be sabino.

    Anyone else know of studs with belly spots that throw 100% sabino or extensively white marked foals?

    Cheers!
    Last edited by SHWarmblood; Nov. 21, 2009 at 11:39 AM.
    ~Christina~ Keur-Wood Stables
    Breeders of Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods
    Standing approved Buckskin Swedish Warmblood Stallion, CATAPULT
    http://www.superiorwarmblood.com



  2. #2
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    Oct. 2, 2003
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    Well one of the mares I just sold had multiple belly/chest spots (as well as other spots) and none of her foals that I know of have. So not sure it is homozygous though I haven't read the study. She has had 3 foals all with blazes and some socks. The one with the least amount of chrome was by a sabino Thoroughbred stallion funny enough who had stockings and LOTS of white.
    Cindy's Warmbloods
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  3. #3
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    Jan. 24, 2008
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    Default

    I don't think the study was that the belly spot was homozygous, but that horses with belly spots will throw 100% sabino foals or foals with a good deal of white. Sounds like your mare did just that with her 3 foals.
    Last edited by SHWarmblood; Nov. 21, 2009 at 11:41 AM.
    ~Christina~ Keur-Wood Stables
    Breeders of Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods
    Standing approved Buckskin Swedish Warmblood Stallion, CATAPULT
    http://www.superiorwarmblood.com



  4. #4
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Default

    Well, my Colonial Spanish stallion who is Sabino 1 and probably also splash white (deducted from his markings and his offspring) does have belly spots. I have DNA tested him and he is heterozygous for sabino 1...so one copy of the gene and not two. I haven't had enough offspring of his to say if always puts belly spots on his foals or not...but one of his foals this year was solid white (no guesses there other than splash white/sabino, and the other two are marked similar to him.) He certainly does throw chrome a lot but the problem is with determining whether it's sabino 1, splash white or both. So far as I know, there is no DNA test for splash white yet. Either way if he has ony copy of Sabino 1 and one copy of splash white, he should put chrome on a foal 75% of the time in theory. I suspect something similar might be going on in the study...that there may be more than one modifying gene present muddying up the results.



  5. #5
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    Jan. 24, 2008
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    Default

    The article actually looked at the splash gene in Icelandics and came to some not-so-interesting conclusions about the gene(s) involved (i.e. that there are many influencing factors, several alleles involved, etc.).

    I read about another stallion, Donarweiss, that has a belly spot. I've only seen a few of his foals but they all appear to be sabino or have a great deal of chrome.

    Anyone have Donarweiss foals to show? Or perhaps a mare like Cindy's who has belly spots who has thrown extensively white marked foals? I also have a mare with belly spots and she's in foal to my buckskin stud. Should be interesting to see if the foal has a good deal of chrome.

    Just to note again, the study wasn't concluding that the belly spot itself was highly heritable, but rather that those horses who have a belly spot throw foal with extensive white markings 100% of the time.
    ~Christina~ Keur-Wood Stables
    Breeders of Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods
    Standing approved Buckskin Swedish Warmblood Stallion, CATAPULT
    http://www.superiorwarmblood.com



  6. #6
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    Default

    Well all her foals had blazes and socks but I don't necessarily call that sabino unless they have tall irregular socks or stockings and some white other than just a blaze such as white wrapped around chin etc. A huge # of horses have socks and blazes and I don't consider those all sabinos. My colt from this year has two socks and a blaze but I don't consider him sabino either. He has no white under his chin or any other parts of his body. I guess I would have to have him tested to know for sure though since there are definately minimal sabino horses but to me they have to be pretty flashy for me to call them a sabino ;-)
    Cindy's Warmbloods
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  7. #7
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    Jan. 24, 2008
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    Default

    I agree. I only call mine sabino if they have chin or belly markings other than face and leg white. Not sure if the study actually classified the white pattern as "sabino", they just wrote, "extensive white markings", so in that respect, you're right, they're concluding that horses with belly spots are homozygous and will throw foals with a significant amount of white, not just a tiny little star and a white coronet (for example).
    ~Christina~ Keur-Wood Stables
    Breeders of Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods
    Standing approved Buckskin Swedish Warmblood Stallion, CATAPULT
    http://www.superiorwarmblood.com



  8. #8
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    Mar. 11, 1999
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    Clayton, CA USA
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    Default

    I have a mare with sabino markings, ie., four low white socks and white through the chin, but no belly spot. Two years ago, bred to Freestyle, who has no or very minimal white, she produced a black colt with four white socks and a belly spot. Her colt this year had socks, but no sabino markings, not even through the chin. Is sabino randomly expressed when carried by one parent or does there have to be a copy of the gene in the stallion too?
    Mystic Owl Sporthorses
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  9. #9
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    Jan. 1, 2003
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    Default

    My filly's sire is splash/sabino (there is some debate about whether he's one or the other, or both, within our breed) with a large belly spot. He has sired completely solid offspring, including my filly's full sister.



  10. #10
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    Jan. 24, 2008
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    Default

    Is sabino randomly expressed when carried by one parent or does there have to be a copy of the gene in the stallion too?
    I think sabino is like any other paint gene where if you have a heterozygote (either confirmed by Sabino 1 DNA test or not), then their progeny should have a 50% chance of always being sabino (or tobiano, overo, etc. if one parent is colored and the other is solid, for example). Now, the Sabino 1 gene isn't the only gene responsible for the sabino pattern; it's just the only one on which we currently conduct DNA testing.

    After Montana_Girl's comment about her filly's sire, I'm wondering if the study can conclude that a belly spot is indicative of a homozygote that would always produce progeny with significant white if he has produced 100% solid. But if he is splash and not sabino, that might account for the solids. I think the article was referring more to confirmed sabino studs with a belly spot. I know splash can have huge spots just about anywhere. Very interesting!
    ~Christina~ Keur-Wood Stables
    Breeders of Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods
    Standing approved Buckskin Swedish Warmblood Stallion, CATAPULT
    http://www.superiorwarmblood.com



  11. #11
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    According to what we know from the most current available research on the only Sabino gene found, Sabino can be VERY VERY minimal. A small stripe. A star and snip.

    So all of those horses you say ARENT sabino, because they don't fall into the "four high whites a blaze and a lip spot" category really ARE sabino.

    For example this stallion is homozygous sabino
    http://home.earthlink.net/~mikarma/images/cmr1.jpg

    And here are a couple of his offspring who are by definition sabino
    http://home.earthlink.net/~mikarma/i...k070508web.jpg
    http://home.earthlink.net/~mikarma/i...head033003.jpg

    I personally believe this
    that there may be more than one modifying gene present muddying up the results.
    is HIGHLY likely.

    Is sabino randomly expressed when carried by one parent or does there have to be a copy of the gene in the stallion too?
    Sabino (and splash for that matter) is very random IMO. If you breed loud to loud, are you more likely to get loud? Yes definitely. But you aren't guaranteed it. And minimal white to minimal white doesn't guarantee you get minimal white.

    I think sabino is like any other paint gene where if you have a heterozygote (either confirmed by Sabino 1 DNA test or not), then their progeny should have a 50% chance of always being sabino
    Yes that is genetically true. However, your expression is going to vary with ANY of those patterns, some times to the point where you could look at the horse and not even be able to tell that any of those patterns are there.
    Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
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  12. #12
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    Jan. 21, 2003
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    Default

    I read about another stallion, Donarweiss, that has a belly spot. I've only seen a few of his foals but they all appear to be sabino or have a great deal of chrome.

    Anyone have Donarweiss foals to show?
    Here's a very intersesting Donarweiss foal for you to look at. He is the second foal on the page, Donegal.
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
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  13. #13
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    Jun. 15, 2006
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    rolling hills of southern Indiana
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    Default

    What an interesting thread. . .

    Much to our surprise, we had a purebred Connemara filly born to us in 2007 who was born with a belly spot. She is a chestnut with two white socks and a blaze and is now greying. I don't plan on using her as breeding stock but am curious, did the article suggest that these belly spots were: highly, minimally, or____________?? when it comes to passing them on to offspring??

    thanks!
    Willow Run Connemaras
    Home of: "Willow Boy" (*Chiltern Colm ex *Sillbridge Miranda by Thunderbolt)
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  14. #14
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    Jul. 5, 2002
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    FL
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    Default

    Very interesting read. I had my first foal with a belly spot this year. He also has a big blaze and 3 high jagged whites. Strangely, his mama is black with a few white hairs on her forehead and one tiny bit of white on a hind.

    http://www.homeagainfarm.com/images/Wow4-19-hed.jpg

    http://www.homeagainfarm.com/images/wow-snif4-12.jpg

    Mama:

    http://www.homeagainfarm.com/images/Kabibi1Maysmall.jpg



  15. #15
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    Oct. 29, 1999
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    Nevada has a small belly spot, and although he has produced lots of white including belly spots, he also has a few foals with just a small star.



  16. #16
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    Remember, there is Sabino1, and there are likely others, which is why the "1" is there. The suspicion is that there are likely at least 2 other types.

    So, just because a horse tests negative for SB1, or only heterozygous, doesn't mean he's not another form of Sabino. That is what can be "muddying" the waters.

    Splash can also muddy the waters a bit, as it's not always obviously what's Splash and what's Sabino. Low white legs are just as likely to be Splash as they are Sabino, and it's almost definitely (at least) Splash if the white mark is fairly horizontal.
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  17. #17
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    Jan. 24, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home Again Farm View Post
    Gorgeous foal!
    ~Christina~ Keur-Wood Stables
    Breeders of Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods
    Standing approved Buckskin Swedish Warmblood Stallion, CATAPULT
    http://www.superiorwarmblood.com



  18. #18
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    Jan. 24, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinwillow View Post
    I don't plan on using her as breeding stock but am curious, did the article suggest that these belly spots were: highly, minimally, or____________?? when it comes to passing them on to offspring??
    Here are some of the findings from the article: The hypothesis regarding the genetic background to belly spots is that it shows a complex inheritance that involves several genes. There is most likely a multigenic background to the belly spot in SWB since the frequency is very low. The other alternative is that the allele is very rare.

    So, in non-scientific terms, they don't know. :-)
    ~Christina~ Keur-Wood Stables
    Breeders of Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods
    Standing approved Buckskin Swedish Warmblood Stallion, CATAPULT
    http://www.superiorwarmblood.com



  19. #19
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    Thank you! :-) SHwarmbloold
    Willow Run Connemaras
    Home of: "Willow Boy" (*Chiltern Colm ex *Sillbridge Miranda by Thunderbolt)
    ~Irish Connemara Ponies for Sport and Pleasure~
    www.willowrunconnemaras.com



  20. #20
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    Dec. 20, 2003
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    England
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    I have a broodmare with a big white belly spot. She has thrown foals with no white on them whatsoever
    www.volatis.co.uk - breeders of quality and colour



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