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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 22, 2008
    Location
    The eastern edge of the eventing wasteland
    Posts
    532

    Default Advice sought...

    Hello all,
    I have a client who does not ride her horse at the moment becasue of a torn meniscus. This has been an ongoing problem of over a year. First one knee then the other. She leases the horse out to a student of mine who rides the horse 6 days a week doing mostly W/T/C and jumps with me in our lessons 2 feet. The owner does not want the horse to go higher due to an old tendon injury. I am fine with that. The student is fine with that.
    The horse is a paint WB. He is stout and 16.3. His conformation issues include being very cow hocked. He has a very mellow disposition so working hard is not his favorite thing to do. We work on low level dressage. His heart lies on the trail. I don't have time to get him out very often and the owner doe not want the lessor to take him out as he can be fresh and buck when cantering out there.
    The advice I need is that he is an older horse, 15, and his hocks are so stiff. I know he has arthritis and is uncomfortable. I have recommended Cosiquin, Adequan and Legend. She put him on a supplement to boost his Vitamin E as his blood work years ago showed that he was low in that area.
    I got his lessor to agree to foot the bill of the entire loading does of Adequan then they would split the monthly injection. But the owner does not want to do it.
    I have tried explaining to her that the horse is unhappy and crabby because it is painful for him to get going. Once he warms up he is willing to go forward but he does not really use his hocks or back end. I explained to her that the back end is going and he is really only using his front end and that will go to if he cannot be made to be more comfortable.
    I have been training the student for years and known the client for 3 years. She is a good person who really loves her horse, does not have tons of spare cash. I did teach her 2 years ago and we talk of her getting back on once her knees are better.
    I feel terrible for the horse who is suffering. He gets very ring sour and is only happy going around the track around the rings. Once he comes in to work he shuts down. So it become this circle, ring sour, ouchy, made to work, cranky etc. When he was showing with the owners daughter, about 4 years ago, they did have his hocks injected so I know that his condition is only going to get worse.
    Any body have any ideas?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2007
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    7,159

    Default

    Tell her the horse needs maintenance or the lessor will not be able to continue the lease as the horse is no longer up to the job without help. IMHO its not fair to keep going with the horse if isn't getting what he needs to be comfortable. Maybe when she faces losing the lease she will re-consider the generous offer by the lessor and let her pay for some maintenance (either hock injections, adequan, injectable glucosamine or cosequin).



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2002
    Location
    my desk
    Posts
    861

    Default

    If the lessee is using the horse 6 times/week and jumping once a week, I think it would be reasonable for her to pay for necessary maintenance to keep him performing at that level. The lessee is putting wear and tear on the horse and benefitting from using him, so I do not think it would be out of line to ask her to pay for maintenace, including hock injections (especially if this is a free lease).



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 2, 2003
    Location
    Woodland, Ca
    Posts
    6,303

    Default

    Have the leasor buy a container of oral joint suppliments. It may be enough to make the horse more comfortable and it's a lot less expensive than injectable.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 10, 2009
    Posts
    1,683

    Default

    Disclaimer: I'm no expert...BUT...The manufacturer of Adequan doesn't actually recommend monthly injections from what I have found on their website and COTH searches. I'm a bit confused about this as with my old horse we did the monthly injections...but everything seems to say it's the "loading" (actual) dose that really matters. 1 shot every 4 days for a total of 7 shots/28 days. If lessee foots the bill for that then from what I understand, monthly injections aren't really necessary. You might want to do some searches (google & COTH) & talk to vet to investigate dosing for yourself. I'm still trying to figure it out myself.

    Also I personally would opt for Adequan (or Legend) over orals as there is more research supporting the effectiveness of it and not so much on oral supplements. That is, if you can decide what dosing regimen you want to follow.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    25,972

    Default

    What is the lease agreement? Does lessor pay for vet/farrier, etc or does owner? When we lease out a horse, the lessor usually pays the vet bills as well as the insurance policy premiums.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    51,461

    Default

    What does the vet say?
    How about first have the owner talk to the vet and then go from that?



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2009
    Posts
    1,965

    Default

    As I see it, the ball is in the lessee's court. Either the lessee can take on the full financial responsibility of the Adequan with the owner's approval, or the lessee could check out other riding options. I am not sure which would benefit the lessee more - it probably depends on what other options are available. The benefit of leasing, though, is that the lessee has the option to find another horse to ride and end the lease.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2006
    Location
    crazytown
    Posts
    1,794

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ctab View Post
    Hello all,


    The advice I need is that he is an older horse, 15, and his hocks are so stiff. I know he has arthritis and is uncomfortable. I have recommended Cosiquin, Adequan and Legend. She put him on a supplement to boost his Vitamin E as his blood work years ago showed that he was low in that area.
    I got his lessor to agree to foot the bill of the entire loading does of Adequan then they would split the monthly injection. But the owner does not want to do it.

    So the owner of the horse does not want to do Adequan AT ALL, and does not want the leesor to do it; or does the owner just not want to pay for half of the eventual monthly injections? If the owner just does not want to contribute any $$ at all- but is fine with doing adequan the lessor needs to just pay for all of it. If the owner doesn't want the leesor to do adequan, then tell the owner the lease is up- not fair to the horse.
    And yes, you do need to do monthly injections after doing the loading dose.. sometimes the horse may need it every two weeks and not just once per month
    Last edited by murphyluv; Nov. 7, 2009 at 04:24 PM.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2006
    Posts
    2,625

    Default

    The horse has to be comfortable or it is not fair to ask it to do its job. I would try a loading dose of adequan and see if you notice a significent improvement and go from there. Good luck!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    18,745

    Default

    This says nothing about who pays for it, but what's the objection to a set of hock injections? They may be more effective than
    Adequan, especially as you guys have decided to use it.

    I think both sides are in a tough place and it may comes down to who as more money to through at the problem. The lessee is enjoying the benefit of the horse. Yes, she is putting some "miles" on him. But if the horse is 15, he needs to stay in some work. I don't think jumping 2' once a week is too much.... except that if the flat work for the hind end isn't there, then the riding isn't doing what it could for keeping the horse loose. If the lessee can't or won't pay, her option is to end the lease. Perhaps the owner who can't ride anyway will have a larger problem if she has the horse back on her pay roll.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



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