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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May. 23, 2006
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    5,516

    Default Steffen and Ravel's tongue/contact issue

    http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/...9gdf/rep5.html



    As an introduction Peters showed a video tape of his growing partnership with Ravel. "We sweet-talk too many situations and kept everything in the video real," Steffen admitted. When the stallion arrived from The Netherlands in the U.S.A. he was obnoxious, unfocused and had several training issues including sticking out his tongue. Ravel was gelded upon arrival to calm down and in order to fix the tongue problem Peters rode the dark bay in a rubber snaffle for two months. By doing so he restored the trust between horse and rider and established an honest connection with the horse’s mouth. Ravel got injured later on and it was very hard bringing him back to full recovery, but fortunately Ravel made it and went on to become the shooting star at the Olympics. The video was a very honest statement about the shared struggle of the horse, owners and rider.



  2. #2
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    Jan. 4, 2000
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    Default

    Noooooooo!!!!! NOT POSSIBLE!!!!!

    LOL.

    If only people had some realistic idea of training, conversations here would be a little different.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2001
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    Default

    Slc , it's great that you can reinvent yourself every day but people will remember what you posted before and call you on it.

    You are no different from the people you now try to distance yourself from and belittle for their over the top emotional responses to this issue.

    No different at all, no matter how much you want to try and bury your previous posts..

    As you posted on the Kittel thread before you knew who it was:

    I could not continue to watch it. It made me physically ill. It's not unusual to see a horse put his tongue out, but it really appeared that the color of the tongue was dusky, and I'm sure it was being trapped or pinched somehow.

    It isn't unusual for horses of that type to be worked for long periods of time, that in and of itself isn't odd, though two hours seems like a bit much even for horses like that...what is absolutely insane is that the guy just left the tongue like that. It doesn't just bother the horse, it makes the rider look like a first class oblivious bad trainer.

    It looks like the horse got his tongue over or between the bits. He no doubt can tell or feel, or something, that that's going on, at least I would think he could given how curled up he's got the horse.

    Without the tongue to cushion the bars of the mouth, the effect of that going on that long is just horrific, the mouth isn't built to carry the bits without the tongue cushioning it.

    The fallout from this is going to be vile. People do not appreciate such garbage.



  4. #4
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    Jan. 4, 2000
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    Default

    YOU decided i posted different thoughts because I found out who he was. That's YOUR take on it, and you always take whatever take is the most negative and the most attacking and the most personal and nasty and disgusting and insulting.

    I don't give a flying mouse poopie who it is, as far as I am concerned Patrick Kittel is part of a blond anonymous army of tall men with their horse's noses in their chests.

    I am not in favor of this technique as you well know, I have gone WAY out of my way to work with people who don't do this, but I am also entitled to examine it and discuss how the horses felt that I rode that have been trained that way and state my less-than-fanatical, less-than-insane, less-than-screeching, attacking reaction to it, and I'm not in the least bit sorry if I'm not fanatically enough against it for your tastes.

    And I also don't have to go along with the extremism here attacking individuals in a personal way, emailing them and the judges death threats and 'you should die' statements, and the whole other nine yards going on.

    I told you before, on a brief look, I first went along with what everyone else was saying. Then I went back again, looked more, viewed more of the video, and and I started to think that I was wrong and I needed to get another look.

    I had some different ideas, and guess what? I changed my mind! I'm allowed to think what I think, change my mind, and I don't have to agree with you or anyone here if I don't feel like it, and no, actuallly, I don't expect people to agree with me when I disagree or change my mind. They can think whatever they like - but so can I.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 1999
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    South Coast Plaza
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    Default

    That's the new reason why he was gelded eh?
    EDDIE WOULD GO



  6. #6
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    Jan. 4, 2000
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    Default

    Um?

    I've never heard any other reason other than he was obnoxious. Why does anyone geld a horse with great bloodlines? To try and get them to pay attention to being a show horse, LOL.



  7. #7
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    Aug. 30, 2001
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    Purcellville, VA
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    Default

    Coreene, being terribly out of the loop, what was the old reason he was gelded?



  8. #8
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    Jul. 19, 2001
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    Default

    People change their minds all the time but when you have someone like yourself ,slc, who is so shrill and overbearing with opinions and so condescending with respect to other people's opinions, the inconsistancies and flipflops are rather glaring.



  9. #9
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    Default

    I think Coreene was making an obtuse joke insinuating that now we find out that Ravel was gelded because of rollkur.

    I got it, Coreene!
    From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.



  10. #10
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    Jul. 19, 2001
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    HEY, I'm getting a hat that says NO JOKING!

    This is deadly serious indeed.



  11. #11
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    Sep. 27, 2000
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    Default

    WRT to the gelding I've heard it was neither disposition nor rollkur. But I'm probably out of the loop too.
    The Evil Chem Prof



  12. #12
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    Nov. 23, 1999
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
    WRT to the gelding I've heard it was neither disposition nor rollkur.
    Yeah, same here, it's all brand new. Every prior interview contradicts the tongue thing too.
    EDDIE WOULD GO



  13. #13
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    Default

    so, are you guys accusing steffen peters of lying?
    Last edited by mbm; Nov. 1, 2009 at 05:26 PM.



  14. #14
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    Nov. 13, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slc2 View Post
    I had some different ideas, and guess what? I changed my mind! I'm allowed to think what I think, change my mind, and I don't have to agree with you or anyone here if I don't feel like it, and no, actuallly, I don't expect people to agree with me when I disagree or change my mind. They can think whatever they like - but so can I.
    Oh, and here we all thought you took your own advice and had some chamomile tea!
    Fear is the rocket sauce.
    Jack Black



  15. #15
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    Sep. 27, 2000
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    so, are you guys accusing stephen peters of lying?
    http://www.kwpn.eu/uploads/File/Ravel.pdf
    Actually I heard there was a fourth option (see article) of re-doing the test, but the horse was not doing well in quarantine. But, hey, I'm out of the loop.
    The Evil Chem Prof



  16. #16
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    Oct. 13, 2003
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    Default

    Good article. Thanks for posting it.
    -Amor vincit omnia-



  17. #17
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    Jun. 7, 2001
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    Germany
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    Default

    Everybody who has seen this horse while it was still in Europe will agree his training was horrible. Could it be that is why there was no nice little line piling up from any of the European bigwig trainers including the hair-fairy 'training godess' some users up here seem so fascinated with?

    I am not in the least surprised to learn he had serious connection problems and took a lot of effort to retrain. I applaud Steffen Peters who getting it done and taking a significant risk with this lovely horse. Also kudos to his sponsors who must have backed this venture and proved to pull through during what must have been a nerve-wrecking import- and retraining process. This is the kind of engagement I'd say we should appreciate as it brings the sport forward with a good example of how competitive riding can be not only non-destructive but even beneficial to a horse's mental and physical soundness if thoughtful management and care is invested into it. Not running to the courts whining about someone saying the truth or publishing a face that has somehow become a copyrighted property of some rude person with no manners.

    Speaking of putting trust into someone's skills and work ethic... Says a lot.



  18. #18
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pony Fixer View Post
    I think Coreene was making an obtuse joke insinuating that now we find out that Ravel was gelded because of rollkur.

    I got it, Coreene!
    I believe Ravel was gelded because he was overwhelmed by hormones much of the time - quite difficult to handle, very unfocused on work, "excited" and looking for something to breed all the time. Wasn't he the one that mounted the wheelbarrow as he was being led down the aisle?



  19. #19
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    Jan. 4, 2000
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    Default

    That's really funny. Anything larger than a breadbox, LOL.

    I think most pro's can handle some of that, but even for a pro the behavior can get to a point where it just doesn't work.



  20. #20
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    Chapel Hill, NC
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    Default

    Not all trainers can get along with all horses, period, regardless of training method. Sometimes, you just don't click.

    And, it would appear, since everyone says his temperament is so good now, that maybe he was "less trainable" when intact.

    Look at John Henry...
    From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.



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