[appychik]

In light of my other thread , has anyone tried SmartGut with any success?

Gus started cribbing again (and I'm still not sure if it was a one day thing, or if it's continued - will find out tomorrow) but in previous years, the cribbing was due in part to pain - and ulcers, so my vet thinks. I've never treated him for ulcers... and I don't have the $ currently to try Ulcergard/Gastrogard, but I have "treated" him with OTC supps in the past, with kinda sketchy results (cribbing did not stop, but the soreness of his barrel did).

I'm wondering if SmartGut would be worth a shot for a month, to see if anything improves/goes away.

Also, I'm supposed to PP the boys, starting this weekend. I've read the other threads about ulcers and PP, and how it shouldn't be harmful... but would you still PP given the fact that new "issues" have arisen?

FWIW, Gus is getting 1/2lb of alfalfa pellets daily and has been for the better part of 6 weeks now. No changes in his diet recently, but we did add in TC Senior at the beginning of the month. He's getting 1lb of that and 2lbs of TC Lite and is finally starting to put the weight back on. He's also getting about 20ish lbs of a mixed grass hay daily.

So, should I try the SmartGut? Something else? I really don't have the $ to spend right now trying Ulcergard/Gastrogard for a month... I can probably swing something in the $35/mo range to try to see if it helps. Suggestions, please.

[BeastieSlave]

I started our ulcer boy on Smartgut after he did a month of UlcerGard. I think it's great!! He's a totally different (happy) horse. I don't know how fast you'll see results if you're hoping for the SmartGut alone to help you heal ulcers though....

I PP'd my guy back when he had ulcers and again (as recently as a couple weeks ago) while he's on SmartGut. No problems! Good luck

[JB]

How does ranitidine compare to the SG? 6.6mg/kg is the dosage, at least twice a day if just prevention, but 3x/day if you're trying to actively relieve ulcers.

I wouldn't use it, but if you aren't opposed to Quest, it will get almost all the encysted strongyles without causing the 14-day post-treatment ulcer issue from a Power Pack.

[appychik]

How does ranitidine compare to the SG? 6.6mg/kg is the dosage, at least twice a day if just prevention, but 3x/day if you're trying to actively relieve ulcers.

I wouldn't use it, but if you aren't opposed to Quest, it will get almost all the encysted strongyles without causing the 14-day post-treatment ulcer issue from a Power Pack.

Well... here's the ingredients list, not sure how it'll copy...

This is per 30g serving:

L-Glutamine 5,000 mg
Calcium Carbonate 4,500 mg
Magnesium Carbonate 3,000 mg
Hydrolyzed Collagen 2,700 mg
Magnesium Silicate 1,700 mg
Deglycyrrized Licorice 1,500 mg
Mannanoligosaccharides 1,300 mg
Glycine 875 mg
Gamma Oryzanol 300 mg
Slippery Elm 300 mg
Marshmallow Root 250 mg
Orthosilic Acid (Silica) 35 mg
Lactobacillus Acidophilus 750 million CFU

See http://www.smartpakequine.com/Produc...ctclassid=6320 for the complete product details.

If I did the calculations right, Gus is 500kg. So that's 6.6mg (times) 500kg, which would equal 3300mg/dose. Right? If so, that's a lot - or seems like a lot. So how many pills would that be?

I did end up ordering a month's worth of the SmartGut. And, I think I am going to go ahead with the PowerPak over the weekend.

JB, I wouldn't mind trying Quest (despite all the negative reviews I've heard on here) but... Gus is still a bit underweight and I wouldn't want something to happen to him because of that. I'll just keep an eye on him to make sure nothing gets worse... if so, I'll just discontinue the PP. FWIW, vet did okay doing a PP.

[JB]

Well... here's the ingredients list, not sure how it'll copy...

Sorry, I meant cost-wise

If I did the calculations right, Gus is 500kg. So that's 6.6mg (times) 500kg, which would equal 3300mg/dose. Right? If so, that's a lot - or seems like a lot. So how many pills would that be?

How many pills depends on the size of the pill If it's the bulk pills from Sam's/Costco, that's 150mg pills. That's a dosage of 22 pills each feeding for Gus. But those are small, and when I used them, I just threw them in the feed (soaked a-pellets) and they were eaten right up.

JB, I wouldn't mind trying Quest (despite all the negative reviews I've heard on here) but... Gus is still a bit underweight and I wouldn't want something to happen to him because of that. I'll just keep an eye on him to make sure nothing gets worse... if so, I'll just discontinue the PP. FWIW, vet did okay doing a PP.

Vet may be totally unaware of the Day 14 (Day 1 is first dose) issue with the ulcers If there is going to be an issue, it's not very likely to happen during the 5 days of the PP. It can, just not likely.

*I* would do the PP. Double dosing fenbendazole is an older treatment for ulcers Same chemical family - fenbendazole, omeprazole

[appychik]

Sorry, I meant cost-wise


How many pills depends on the size of the pill If it's the bulk pills from Sam's/Costco, that's 150mg pills. That's a dosage of 22 pills each feeding for Gus. But those are small, and when I used them, I just threw them in the feed (soaked a-pellets) and they were eaten right up.


Vet may be totally unaware of the Day 14 (Day 1 is first dose) issue with the ulcers If there is going to be an issue, it's not very likely to happen during the 5 days of the PP. It can, just not likely.

*I* would do the PP. Double dosing fenbendazole is an older treatment for ulcers Same chemical family - fenbendazole, omeprazole

Makes sense... comparing the costs NOT supps/drugs themselves (as there is no real comparison).

And, I forgot that you can get meds at Sam's Club. I'll need to remember that for the future.

But, I think I read on here before about the PP and ulcer med connection (same chemical family thing). And... didn't realize it can be 14 days out before issues (ulcers) appear. Thanks for the heads up.

[mypaintwattie]

My horse did well on the smart gut, but I had to switch her over to U-gard because smart gut has licorice in it, which will test positive at a USEF show.

[appychik]

My horse did well on the smart gut, but I had to switch her over to U-gard because smart gut has licorice in it, which will test positive at a USEF show.

Thankfully we don't show anymore, so I don't need to follow any regs.

[RacetrackReject]

I use SmartGut on my suspected ulcery TB (vet insisted no) and it has done wonders for him. I couldn't decide between the SmartGut and SmartDigest at first, but went with SmartGut and I am very glad I did.

[appychik]

I use SmartGut on my suspected ulcery TB (vet insisted no) and it has done wonders for him. I couldn't decide between the SmartGut and SmartDigest at first, but went with SmartGut and I am very glad I did.

I had the same issue, deciding between the two. But did go with SmartGut for this first month. I'm actually going to try (if needed) TractGard next month... hopefully there's no reoccurances...

[midnightride]

I use SmartGut on my OTTB's that just dont justify the cost of UlcerGuard. It does seem to help, and sure wont hurt
also PP is super for ulcers, and I have used low dose Panacur with UlcerGuard in the past (vets advice) we also used to use the liquid Panacur pre-race to help sooth and keep acid down. Also you can try a short term use of UlcerGuard to get you over the hump (I have been only paying $32.00 for a tube online so do some bargin shopping!)

[BeastieSlave]

Another thought... You'll find lots of information about SafeGuard or liquid goat wormer if you do a search (maybe you already have?). It's the same stuff as PowerPak in liquid form and considerably cheaper. Lots of us here use it

[JB]

Liquid fen is definitely cheaper if you have 2 horses on the larger side. 1 horse makes it iffy - just depends on the size. But it's DEFINITELY worth looking into

www.agri-med.com and Tractor Supply both carry it - a-m is the cheapest I've found if you have to factor in shipping, but TSC is cheaper if you can go to a store and pick it up

[AppJumpr08]

I used SmartGut on a yearling who I had treated for ulcers - kept him a happy camper once the Ulcerguard was done. (and it smells YUMMY!! )

[BeastieSlave]

Liquid fen is definitely cheaper if you have 2 horses on the larger side. 1 horse makes it iffy - just depends on the size. But it's DEFINITELY worth looking into

www.agri-med.com and Tractor Supply both carry it - a-m is the cheapest I've found if you have to factor in shipping, but TSC is cheaper if you can go to a store and pick it up

True. I forgot that I usually do at least three horses at a time and two of them are pretty darned big!

[appychik]

Another thought... You'll find lots of information about SafeGuard or liquid goat wormer if you do a search (maybe you already have?). It's the same stuff as PowerPak in liquid form and considerably cheaper. Lots of us here use it

Yep. I remember and I listened to jn4jenny a while back and PRINTED off the info she posted... from the original post . So, yep I've got 4 bottles of the liquid fen and I'm ready to go (except I need to relocate my 60ml syringe... not sure where the heck I left it lying around).

ETA: I just purchased it thru Valley Vet cause I needed to get an order from there anyways. I'll try to remember TSC next time. They are ridiculously over-priced otherwise, but my local Mills Fleet doesn't carry the liquid fen.

[baylady7]

Appy

My BO feeds her mare old fashioned alfalfa cubes and they help with weight. My boy is on oil (Cocosoya from KVVet) which is 99% fat and also helps with weight (he is 22yo) plus all the grass and hay he can eat (and 2lbs grain per day)

[appychik]

baylady7 -

I'd love to feed Gus more alfalfa, but being IR and not ever getting any alfalfa before the diagnosis... I don't want to risk laminitis. He has been getting 1/2lbs of alfalfa pellets daily for about a month now as is doing okay with them.

Back to the reason for the post... the boys had their first dose of liquid fen today. BO (aka future MIL) will be giving the other doses if I'm not out during feeding time. She seemed to grasp my reasonings behind it and was shocked that I could get it cheaper then what the catalogs sell it for.

So... here's hoping for no 14 day post-PP colics .