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  1. #1
    Conde Guest

    Default Leasing arrangements and "rain days"

    Anybody have a good plan to set up a fair way to handle "rain days" between two separate part-leasers of a horse who is ridden only outdoors? (Also for days when the horse cannot be ridden due to a vet procedure or illness.)

    Problem arose because a quarter-leaser seems routinely to expect the half-leaser (who's the owner's S.O.) to eat the half-leaser's own rain days and also to provide make-up days to the quarter-leaser from the half-leaser's riding schedule when rain spoils the quarter-leaser's riding. When this doesn't happen the quarter-leaser doesn't pay the full amount to the owner.

    Clearly this is unfair and should have been worked out in advance, but having a time-tested formula that seems fair and works out well in practice is more likely to make everyone happy than having an argument with no solution available.



  2. #2
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    As both lessor and lessee, it has been my experience that, as pacificsolos said, "weather happens," along with other "stuff." If "my" day falls on a rainy day, I may either ride in the rain or not at all. For things that can be planned in advance, like a vet or farrier procedure, they could strive to schedule those on the horse's regular day off where possible, or the person riding on that day would need to schedule their saddle time for before or after.

    In the contract I use for part-leasing my horses, this is spelled out. The ONLY time "make-up days" are arranged would be if I exercise my option as owner to use the horse (rare, and always with maximum advance notification to the leaser) on one of the leaser's riding days. Bad weather, horse lameness or illness, leaser laziness/disinclination to ride do NOT warrant any "make-up" OR reduction in monthly lease fee. Of course, the key is that it is spelled out in the contract before any money changes hands!
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  3. #3
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    Jul. 10, 2008
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    What's wrong with riding in the rain? Whenever I've part leased you get what you get. But the leasers are usually generous in letting the other one know when they can't make it to the barn etc so the other could get an extra ride in. And if you want to show you trade weekend for weekend. Sounds like the quarter lessor should be asked to smarten up or hit the road...



  4. #4
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    Jul. 26, 2007
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    Ugh. The quarter-leasor sounds like a complete PITA. Are they really worth it? What is their definition of a nice-enough day for riding? Will they be upset when it is too hot, or too sunny (maybe the sun gets in their eyes) or too buggy, or the birds are singing too loudly, or.....

    Weather happens. Life happens.



  5. #5
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    Apr. 2, 2004
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    Louisville, KY
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    1/4 leasor needs to suck it up or buy their own horse. I've been on both ends of this, and the rules are always the same. If she had her own horse, she wouldn't be able to ride those days either, so would she only pay 29 days worth of board?

    Another example of the importance of a written contract. If this person was leasing my horse, I'd tell them to get lost.
    Strong promoter of READING the entire post before responding.



  6. #6
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    Dec. 4, 2002
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    Alpharetta, GA
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    I think it works best to have set days- weather is not a consideration in owning or leasing a horse. If that doesn't suit 1/4 leasor, perhaps a daily "rental" would be more to their liking- at a considerably higher rate.



  7. #7
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    If you're feeling very diplomatic, you could offer quarter leaser the horse's day off IF and only IF the owner emails the quarter leaser that week to authorize it (ie, the owner gets to make the call about how bad the weather is).

    Otherwise I'd tell them to buy a frickin' rain jacket and get over themselves. Or even better, to pay more money to quarter lease a horse at a boarding facility with an indoor (in which case the board will be more expensive and the lease will therefore be more expensive).
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  8. #8
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conde View Post
    Anybody have a good plan to set up a fair way to handle "rain days" between two separate part-leasers of a horse who is ridden only outdoors? (Also for days when the horse cannot be ridden due to a vet procedure or illness.)

    Problem arose because a quarter-leaser seems routinely to expect the half-leaser (who's the owner's S.O.) to eat the half-leaser's own rain days and also to provide make-up days to the quarter-leaser from the half-leaser's riding schedule when rain spoils the quarter-leaser's riding. When this doesn't happen the quarter-leaser doesn't pay the full amount to the owner.

    Clearly this is unfair and should have been worked out in advance, but having a time-tested formula that seems fair and works out well in practice is more likely to make everyone happy than having an argument with no solution available.
    deary deary deary - the people have him on lease for x amount of days in a week as in set days if it rains its tough -- its not all about riding but about having the pony to lve and look after all the leases have the same problem you will run out of days

    you need to derermine in set contract that they have him on those days and those they pay for regaurdless of the flipping weather if they dont like it show them the dooor as they are in breech of the contract and not perosn that owns the horse or the other leasers



  9. #9
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    Jan. 21, 2008
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    Dexter, MI
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    Another idea: If your job takes you away from riding for a few days, or if you have a vacation scheduled, you could do "make-up" days during that time.

    I've always worked it that the lessor had first dibs on days when I couldn't ride. Perhaps the 1/4-lessor could have first dibs on those days??
    "Imma snap youuuu! - with a shout out to Wildlifer



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
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    VA
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    When it's just been me (owner ) plus half lessor, I give up my days should there be a conflict.

    But, when there are two people involved, I've basically said that each person gets "their" days (3 apiece). Horse gets one day off. I schedule farrier/vet/etc on the day off. If weather affects the ride days, I will try to accommodate by using the "day off" in a rotating fashion. So if rider A and rider B both miss a day this week and next, I give rider A the makeup day this week, and rider B the next.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  11. #11
    Conde Guest

    Default

    I keep writing longer messages but the system won't seem to post them. Appreciate the suggestions and want to hear more creative thoughts.

    Right now it sounds to me as if everybody being responsible for the risk of the weather on their own day and sucking it up when they can't ride (or won't ride in the rain/snow) is pretty fair because weather is random over the long haul.

    But the ideas about how to fairly handle possible make-up days are intriguing. It's 1/4 + 1/2 = 3/4 lease, so there's approximately one day left over that belongs to the owner. Whoever loses the first day to weather gets the 'owner's day', and any other days lost to weather (including the owner's makeup day itself) are just lost? The quarter leaser gets only half as much chance for a rain makeup day as the half-leaser, but also pays and rides half as much as the half-leaser. With weather being random, is that fair all around?

    Forgot to add that I was once in a year-long half-lease arrangement where late on somebody else whose horse got sick leased the other half. Dealing with that other person was an incredible pain, passive-aggressive, backbiting and irrational. No matter what I did to try to smooth out arrangements it created friction. Eventually the owner, the barn manager -- although what business it was of hers I still can't guess -- we two leasers spent as much time arguing away from the barn or on the phone than any of us did riding the horse. Got tied up with things at work and ended the lease. I'm sure everyone (except the owner) was much happier.



  12. #12
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    May. 6, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conde View Post
    I keep writing longer messages but the system won't seem to post them. Appreciate the suggestions and want to hear more creative thoughts.

    Right now it sounds to me as if everybody being responsible for the risk of the weather on their own day and sucking it up when they can't ride (or won't ride in the rain/snow) is pretty fair because weather is random over the long haul.

    But the ideas about how to fairly handle possible make-up days are intriguing. It's 1/4 + 1/2 = 3/4 lease, so there's approximately one day left over that belongs to the owner. Whoever loses the first day to weather gets the 'owner's day', and any other days lost to weather (including the owner's makeup day itself) are just lost? The quarter leaser gets only half as much chance for a rain makeup day as the half-leaser, but also pays and rides half as much as the half-leaser. With weather being random, is that fair all around?
    An easier arrangement might be to calculate a "cost per ride", put up a calendar and fill it out, guaranteeing/requiring a day off for the horse. Each contributor gets to pick one day a week. If you can't ride the day you have picked, note it on the calendar and see if someone will switch. If not but someone picks up that day, then they pay for two rides that week. Hope that makes sense!



  13. #13
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    If a half-lease is three days a week, what is a quarter lease? 2? 1 only? 1 plus one weekend a month??



  14. #14
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    May. 10, 2009
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    Is there only a certain time of day that both riders can ride? Is the horse older or coming off a layup? If the riders' schedules are flexible, why couldn't they both ride on the same day once in a while? Two hours of work a day is not too much for a fit horse-it's still considered light work unless it's being spent jumping heavily or race training or the like.

    If they can't work that out due to time or special needs of the horse and the QL has set days-either she needs to suck it up and ride in the rain or suck it up and realize that the world does not revolve around what she wants. Obviously if there was a week of nothing but rain so that the arena was dangerous or something, it would be a courtesy on everybody's part to come to a compromise the following week, but the rainy day here or there-she won't melt.



  15. #15
    Conde Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HorsesinHaiti View Post
    If a half-lease is three days a week, what is a quarter lease? 2? 1 only? 1 plus one weekend a month??
    For simplicity, we figure 2 days for the quarter and 4 days for the half. It's a lot easier than 3-1/2 and 1-3/4. The owner rarely rides so she doesn't mind losing the other 3/4 day.

    Reminds me when in the early 60's and nobody had calculators the State of Mississippi in its infinite wisdom had a 3-1/8 percent sales tax, I think it was. (Might have been 2-7/8%.) (Everyone else's was an integer or at worst broke at a 1/2 percent rate.) If you worked behind a counter at a retail store in MS & had no look-up table, you were just flat out of luck.



  16. #16
    Conde Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryisBlaisin' View Post
    Is there only a certain time of day that both riders can ride? Is the horse older or coming off a layup? If the riders' schedules are flexible, why couldn't they both ride on the same day once in a while? Two hours of work a day is not too much for a fit horse-it's still considered light work unless it's being spent jumping heavily or race training or the like.

    If they can't work that out due to time or special needs of the horse and the QL has set days-either she needs to suck it up and ride in the rain or suck it up and realize that the world does not revolve around what she wants. Obviously if there was a week of nothing but rain so that the arena was dangerous or something, it would be a courtesy on everybody's part to come to a compromise the following week, but the rainy day here or there-she won't melt.
    Horse is older, but pretty fit for hsi age. Logistics of coordinating different times on the same day are complicated, but in principle could be done, and it's a good thought that we've all forgotten to consider.



  17. #17
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    Jan. 12, 2007
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    No such thing as "rain days" in horse leasing they are an act of God. If the horse is sick he is sick - it's part of horse husbandry.
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"



  18. #18
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    Wow, when did riders start melting in the rain?
    I ride regardless of the weather; I suggest they learn to do the same
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  19. #19
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    When I part leased my horse there were no rain days. If it rained and they didn't want to ride, that was their problem.

    I never took back days if it rained when I was supposed to ride!

    I found that the only way to make a lease work was to have defined days and hours. That way if I wanted to go for a light hack on same day that my leasor rode my horse would have enough of a rest before hand.

    I actually ended a lease on the spot when I found the person leasing my horse riding during my time because it had been "too cold" to ride during his time.
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  20. #20
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    Basically - Too bad.. If it rains on her day, either she rides or does not. If she chooses not too, then she is out of a day. If she can't understand that weather is unpredictable and she may lose a day due to snow or rain then she is acting quite unreasonable..
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