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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 3, 2002
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    near Peterborough, Ontario
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    Default HYPP N/H question

    This may be a stupid question, but I honestly don't know the answer: if you have a HYPP N/H mare, I understand that you don't want to breed her to another quarter horse for fear of perpetuating the HYPP issue. However, can she be bred safely to a breed of horse or pony where HYPP is not an issue?

    For example, could the above mare be bred to a hackney pony (please remember this is a hypothetical example) safely? Since HYPP is not present in the hackney and there is no quarterhorse anywhere in the history of the hackney pony?

    I hope I have been clear enough here. I am curious to hear the answer.

    Thank you.

    Jennifer
    Belindale Farm
    Breeding quality ponies for show and pleasure.
    Home of Clay Creek Woodstock - visit him on Facebook



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2006
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    947

    Default

    It doesn't matter the breed she is bred to, the resulting foal would have a 50% chance of being N/H. Just the same odds as if she were bred to a N/N Quarter Horse.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
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    46,382

    Default

    Genetically, if we want to eliminate that terrible mutation, ethically you should never, ever bred any other than N/N.
    That is the ONLY way the mutation will die, eventually.

    Your N/H horse may start having symptoms any day also and you don't want that to happen while pregnant, do you?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    37,157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ainsley View Post
    This may be a stupid question, but I honestly don't know the answer: if you have a HYPP N/H mare, I understand that you don't want to breed her to another quarter horse for fear of perpetuating the HYPP issue.
    It's not just QH's - Paints and Appys can have it as well. Appendix can have it - TB x QH. There are SO many mutts out there with some QH blood that you can't just say "oh, he's not a QH, he's fine"

    However, can she be bred safely to a breed of horse or pony where HYPP is not an issue?
    No. SHE is carrying the disease. She herself has it. Being N/H just means she's less likely to develop symptoms, and less likely to have symptoms as severe as an H/H horse. Unlike some diseases where it has to be homozygous to be a problem, like SCID in Arabs, HYPP is problematic in the heterozygous form.

    She has the disease. She has a 50/50 shot each breeding of creating another horse with the disease, even when bred to a N/N horse.

    For example, could the above mare be bred to a hackney pony (please remember this is a hypothetical example) safely? Since HYPP is not present in the hackney and there is no quarterhorse anywhere in the history of the hackney pony?

    I hope I have been clear enough here. I am curious to hear the answer.

    Thank you.

    Jennifer
    See above - not, Hackney is not safe, because she can still pass the disease on.

    Bluey is right - this disease could be literally wiped out in 1 generation, by simply not breeding any ?/H horse.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 6, 2007
    Location
    Michigan
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    384

    Default

    stupid question. What is HYPP N/H ?
    HiddenAcresFarm.Net
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    N/H means the horse is heterozygous for the disease - N means negative and H means positive.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2005
    Location
    Paris, Kentucky
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Genetically, if we want to eliminate that terrible mutation, ethically you should never, ever bred any other than N/N.
    That is the ONLY way the mutation will die, eventually.
    Repeat 10,000 times. Please.
    Holly
    www.ironhorsefrm.com
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 21, 2007
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    Eastern PA
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    Default

    HYPP is not a recessive mutation. It is a dominant. Even if a horse inherits only one copy from a parent, it can become symptomatic. Just as a horse needs to inherit only one copy of grey or agouti to become grey or bay.

    If it was a recessive mutation, outcrossing could, indeed, help the situation. Every horse/person/living thing carries deleterious recessives, but they only manifest when paired with an identical recessive from both parents. But HYPP is one of those things that can only be eliminated by not breeding ANY horse that carries even one copy.
    www.sauconycreeksporthorses.com
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  9. #9
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    Aug. 2, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jdeboer01 View Post
    HYPP is not a recessive mutation. It is a dominant.
    Its actually incomplete dominant.
    Just as a horse needs to inherit only one copy of grey or agouti to become grey or bay.
    I'll agree with the gray part, but not the bay part. A could have two "A" and still not be bay. They could be chestnut.
    Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 21, 2007
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiddleMeThis View Post
    Its actually incomplete dominant.
    I'll agree with the gray part, but not the bay part. A could have two "A" and still not be bay. They could be chestnut.
    Yes, you are correct. I was trying to keep it simple for the OP.
    www.sauconycreeksporthorses.com
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2009
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    94

    Default

    I have seen a horse listed for $10,000 on our local Craigslist that read HYPP N/H. Does that mean he is negative for HYPP? The ad also read he is symptom free, which made me think something wasn't right as I would think being negative means that being symptom free shouldn't even be an issue and therefore not mentioned. When I read that he was symptom free it made me think that he actually may be a carrier and just not showing signs yet.
    Can someone clarify this for my tired brain?



  12. #12
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    Aug. 2, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greeneyelioness View Post
    I have seen a horse listed for $10,000 on our local Craigslist that read HYPP N/H. Does that mean he is negative for HYPP? The ad also read he is symptom free, which made me think something wasn't right as I would think being negative means that being symptom free shouldn't even be an issue and therefore not mentioned. When I read that he was symptom free it made me think that he actually may be a carrier and just not showing signs yet.
    Can someone clarify this for my tired brain?
    NH means he carries the gene, and while he may not have symptoms right now he could.

    NN means completely negative for the disease and will not have any symptoms ever.

    HH means the horse is positive for the disease and will likely have symptoms.
    Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
    http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2007
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    NW Louisiana
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greeneyelioness View Post
    I have seen a horse listed for $10,000 on our local Craigslist that read HYPP N/H. Does that mean he is negative for HYPP? ...
    N/H means that the horse only has one copy of the gene. Thus he still has HYPP, just probably not as severe a case as a horse who is H/H. Just because he hasn't shown symptoms yet doesn't mean that he won't. Plenty of N/H horses do have symptoms of HYPP.

    And no, you shouldn't breed a N/H mare.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 21, 2007
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    Eastern PA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greeneyelioness View Post
    I have seen a horse listed for $10,000 on our local Craigslist that read HYPP N/H. Does that mean he is negative for HYPP? The ad also read he is symptom free, which made me think something wasn't right as I would think being negative means that being symptom free shouldn't even be an issue and therefore not mentioned. When I read that he was symptom free it made me think that he actually may be a carrier and just not showing signs yet.
    Can someone clarify this for my tired brain?
    Yes, he is a carrier. N/H means Negative HYPP/Positive HYPP. So he carries one copy of the HYPP gene, and CAN become symptomatic and would pass it on to 50% of his progeny (if he's a stallion).
    www.sauconycreeksporthorses.com
    Dedicated to breeding Friesian Sporthorses
    with world class pedigrees and sport suitability



  15. #15
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    Aug. 2, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jdeboer01 View Post
    would pass it on to 50% of his progeny (if he's a stallion).
    Not sure what you're meaning here, but mares will pass it on as well.
    Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
    http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 21, 2007
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    Eastern PA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RiddleMeThis View Post
    Not sure what you're meaning here, but mares will pass it on as well.
    The OP referred to the horse as a "he". I answered the question as male specific.
    www.sauconycreeksporthorses.com
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    with world class pedigrees and sport suitability



  17. #17
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jdeboer01 View Post
    The OP referred to the horse as a "he". I answered the question as male specific.
    To keep everything clear. Greeneyelioness asked about an ad for a male (gelding or stallion not specified). You were answering that question.

    The original poster (Ainsley) has a hypothetical mare.

    I would not breed any horse with any 'H' in their genes (N/H or H/H). It is very easy to get rid of this mutation by simply not breeding - but some people are more interested in a profit or blinded by the competition abilities of their horse and convince themselves that breeding N/H is ok.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 15, 2008
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    Default

    I haven't worried about HYPP (Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis) for a long time, but last time I checked, the standard test ONLY identified horses with the same genetic mutation that is believed to have started with Impressive. Does anyone know if this is still the case?

    From a genetic point of view, another mutation could occur to the same gene in a different blood line.



  19. #19
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    Jan. 12, 2007
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    If the mare is nice breed her and see what happens If the the foal is N/H don't breed her again. Geld or spay the foal to appease others.

    I own and ride daily an N/H horse - and you know what? The sky is not falling!

    I bought him knowing he was N/H I liked the horse I bought him he is awesome! And again the skying is still not falling.
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"



  20. #20
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    Jan. 12, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by atlatl View Post
    I haven't worried about HYPP (Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis) for a long time, but last time I checked, the standard test ONLY identified horses with the same genetic mutation that is believed to have started with Impressive. Does anyone know if this is still the case?

    From a genetic point of view, another mutation could occur to the same gene in a different blood line.
    Yes it is only in the Impressive line.
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"



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