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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 2, 2009
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    756

    Default Yearling toeing out...too late to correct?

    I had a new, well-repected, blacksmith out today to trim my 18 month old filly. He pointed out that she is wearing the inside of her hoof wall significantly more than the outside...but he says "it's a conformation flaw and it won't affect her" in the future. I bought this filly as my top level dressage prospect, and am quite nervous that he found this flaw in her front leg, as it indicates she is toeing out. At 18 months old is this an issue that could be resolved with corrective trimming or is my dream horse going to have a slightly crooked leg? Pictures to follow soon...



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2001
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    15,232

    Default

    Does she toe out from the shoulder? knee? Pastern? One or both legs.

    Could it be a trim issue?

    Several of my babies toed out when young-as the developed and widened through the chest, it corrected.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2004
    Location
    New Hampshire
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    Default

    I was given a yearling who toed out bad, working with my farrier has him straightening out.
    Missouri Fox Trotters-To ride one is to own one

    Standardbreds, so much more then a harness racing horse.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
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    Default

    I agree with asking if this is a trim issue. If it is and its not corrected then it *could* affect your horse for life. The hooves develop during the 1st 5 years of the horse's life; the knees close and are developed at 4 years old; the back not until 5 - 8 depending on the size and breed of the horse.

    There are ways to tell if your horse's hooves are balanced and leveled correctly. Go to www.barefoottrim.com, click on EDUCATIONAL then look for the article on "Balance". Take a good look at the 'landmarks' that are noted there then compare with your filly. The 'hairline tells its all', ~Lyle Bergeleen -- and truly, it does. It is maleable so any adverse pressure under the hairline will be evident as the hairline becomes 'jammed' with excessive pressure in one spot or another.

    without seeing photos of the hooves then its hard to say just *what* the problem might be.

    I would also note that movement is paramount for healthy development of the hooves and lower limbs -- let your baby run and jump and play and m.o.v.e!! All day ... turnout. Even 24/7 with the dam if possible.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 2, 2009
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    756

    Default

    The foot in question is her front left...here is a picture of her two fronts I took right after the blacksmith left this morning.

    http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...Picture014.jpg

    Another angle

    http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...Picture015.jpg



  6. #6
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    Jul. 2, 2009
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    Default

    Thanks for that link caballus...she actually is out 24/7 with a run-in shed on about an acre



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    Hard to say for sure from those pictures - could you get one showing her standing squarely, at least from the chest down?

    It's normal for a youngster that age, even a bit older, to toe out to the degree she appears to be, as long as it's the leg that's out, not just, say, from the fetlock down. As they age, the chest widens, and that straightens the leg.

    But even if this is her destiny, to be toed out forever to this degree, it doesn't look like nearly enough to be a major concern. But, that's just based on that first picture, which really isn't showing the whole picture
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  8. #8
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    Jul. 2, 2009
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    756

    Default

    Thanks JB, i'll snap a bunch of pics of her front end tomorrow so you guys can get a better look. I, personally, can't even see what my blacksmith is talking about...I think it's subtle and can only be noticed in how her hooves wear. I'll see if I can get some hoof shots also. You guys are making me feel better already.



  9. #9
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    Feb. 8, 2002
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    Default

    Oh gosh, I didn't think she looked bad at all.



  10. #10
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    What you need is a vet. opinion. Some "toeing out" problems can be treated this late but some can't. With the latter issues if your farrier starts messing with the leg it can induce other, serious problems.

    Ask me how I know.

    Again, get a vet. exam and opinion before you let anybody mess with the foot.

    G.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
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    Default

    It appears to me that perhaps the outside wall is higher than the inside - a very common reason for 'toeing out'. Can you get a photo that is straight on the fronts with the camera, literally, sitting on the ground? (You may have to do this individually so you don't get the angle from the toeing out. You want the camera lens to be at a "T" to the hoof.) That way we can get a good view of the hairline and the hoofwall from the front. Thanks.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
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    If the bony colum is straight with itself, which it looks there and she is not in at the elbows or that slight deviation starts at the knee with maybe other, like tied in behind the knee, or bench knee, I would not worry.

    Many yearlings toe out just because they have not developed width yet.
    Those that are flat between the front legs and very straight some times end up pigeon toed.

    Slight deviations are not always bad, if the rest of the horse is balanced with that.

    One hoof seems to be smaller than the other, which also may not mean anything as far as serviceablility.
    As a farrier, you don't really want to "correct" what nature gives you too much, but you still can some at this age, if it seems necessary, as some remodeling is still going on at the skeletal level.
    Just be sure that you won't twist something out of balance somewhere else.

    I would have your vet look at her, since the farrier brought this quesion and get a second opinion.

    By the way, knees close right around 24 months, not four years.
    At the race track, many years ago, we x-rayed some two year old's knees and I don't remember ever having one over 24 months still with knees where the growth plates had not closed, although we heard from our vets of a few that took another couple or three months longer.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
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    Default

    Agree that a lot of young horses toe out until their chest spreads.

    However.. toeing OUT is one of the more disturbing lower limb faults in a sport horse. I trim quite a few horses who were halter horses as yearlings/two year olds and they toe out now because they were trimmed to look straight no matter what. They DO have issues because of this, there is no point in pretending that they don't.

    Personally I'd want some film - and to be sure that my farrier was not trying to "correct" this by leaving something high and something low - IMO it's playing w/fire - better to trim for a balanced foot based on the live sole plane and let the cards fall where they may.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2007
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    Northern Virginia, 45 minutes east of paradise - 2 hrs during rush hour
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    Agree with all those who say that toeing out is normal in youngsters. We had a 3 year old perch cross who turned out until she was 4 and her chest finally filled out
    However, if you are concerned, find a vet who specializes in leg and foot conformation and have some films done.
    We have a Hanoverian filly where one leg turned out at birth. A well respected vet said she'd be fine. Repeatedly. Had another vet out for an unrelated issue when the filly was 15 months and the FIRST thing she says is "We have to get that knee fixed". <sigh>
    Had some films done and yep, the knee needed to be fixed. Used an excellent group called Dynasplint. Cost all of $450. The splint needs to be applied everyday for a month.
    "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

    "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul. 2, 2009
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    756

    Default

    If the toeing out isn't visible to the naked eye...and can only be observed because she is wearing the inside of her hoof more than the outside...is it severe enough to warrant x-rays/possible dynasplint? I'm so nervous, but I don't want to spend $500 on having the vet out/ x-rays done if I am just over-reacting...however if the observation in her hoof wear is enough to warrant enough nervousness to have my lameness/leg vet out...this horse is too valuable not to do so. Let me know what you guys think...thanks so much.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2002
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    Virginia
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    "The Voice of Dynasplint" piping in to say that she doesn't look to be in need of splinting from the fetlock down. When you can, please post a couple of pics that show her front legs from the upper chest down at least and a full profile of her front end. But from what I see in your first 2 photos she looks like a baby in a growth phase. 'Nothing big to worry about there and I'm not in favor of remodeling joints that aren't in need. Just keep in mind that NOBODY is perfect and all bodies compensate for their own little idiosyncracies.
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory



  17. #17
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    Jul. 2, 2009
    Posts
    756

    Default

    Thanks JackieBlue...I was going to head down to the barn today and snap some more pictures, but it is pouring rain here and i can't talk myself into leaving the house hehe. Hopefully I'll have some more photos tomorrow afternoon. thanks so much for responding!



  18. #18
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    Jan. 31, 2003
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    I would ask the farrier if he feels it is due to her previous trimming or if the wear is conformational, or if it will take him some time to determine that.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul. 2, 2009
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    Default

    He felt it was "something that wasn't caught from trimming when she was younger" and is now a "conformation flaw"...the last thing you want to hear that your priceless baby has eh?. I'm not entirely sure he's an expert when it comes to young horses ... and i'm not convinced she has an actual "flaw" as it is completely indiscernible to me. I'm going to post some photos for you all to see what I'm talking about tomorrow. My boyfriend and I have been trying to decide whether to have the vet out or not as she is an investment for us.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr. 10, 2008
    Posts
    670

    Default Doesn't look bad too me....

    But like others said - need a photo from chest down and a video of her walking straight at the camera would be helpful too.

    She's way too old for splinting etc to do anything, if there was anything that could be done, it would be surgical BUT most yearlings are a little valgus (toed out) and like others said, as their chest widens and they mature, it will correct. In fact, you don't want them to have perfectly straight legs at that age because then as they mature they will actually toe in.



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