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  1. #41
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    Jan. 31, 2009
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    It's a little more country than that
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    With regards to "How on EARTH did the grandparents get this TB filly for the grandkids?" question, one possible answer lies in reading the classifieds this morning. There are three weanling TB "phillies" for sale, $200 each and they will deliver them to you!

    I am so fighting the urge to buy a weanling. I mean, where are they going to wind up for two hundred each? Ugh.



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2000
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    Virginia
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    I'm not so sure if this is true, given the number of horse professionals who suffer body damage, and don't have the insurance to cover their liability, and thus, need donations to cover their bills.
    But if they're promoting themselves as PROFESSIONAL and running a business, one would assume (and courts have assumed in the past) they're planning to take responsibility for whatever the liability is. That is a very basic part of running a business.

    To be blunt and to the point. If an individual is in a position to give a advice, an opinion, a lecture, on any given topic, they have the moral responsibility to be able to demonstrate or prove their advice, opinion, or lecture.
    No, actually, they DON'T have a "moral responsibility" to "prove themselves." Suggesting doing the research and consulting a professional is excellent advice.
    ---
    They're small hearts.



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2008
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    MD
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    3,880

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    Quote Originally Posted by nightsong View Post
    .. This horse is NEVER going to be kid-safe. The tack-store clerk was right.
    Why would you assume that? With proper handlig and training, today's flighty 14 month old TB filly, who's been stuck in a stall, BTW, can easily become tomorrow's easy-going 6 year old babysitter.

    Sounds like the mother is starting on the right road, looking for a professional to help her with the filly.

    Most TB's are at least halter trained and backed some time in their 2 year old year. Not appropriate for 2 inexperienced grade school girls, store clerk was dead on in her advice in that respect. But I've seen many a push button, bomb proof 14 year old ruined in less than a year by inept handling as well.

    Grandparents may be clueless but well meaning. Horse dealer may have been unscrupulous or desperate to find a home for filly and knew that family would try to 'do right' by her.

    Agree with poster who said that more horse people need to step up the plate to try to help today's inexperience horse crazy kids become tomorrow's horsemen. Heaping scorn on them because they lack experience doesn't help much to relive us of this 'elitist' label that's killing our industry.

    ETA: To the OP... you did as much as you could in the situation. I think its ludicrous to suggest that you should have personally taken on any additional responsibility for the horse.
    Last edited by Trevelyan96; Oct. 8, 2009 at 03:09 PM.
    Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
    Witherun Farm
    http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/



  4. #44
    Join Date
    May. 20, 2005
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    Desert Southwest
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    Problem is, by the time this horse IS an easy-going babysitter, the kiddos will likely be over the horse infatuation. Unless lessons on a nice safe horse are arranged, or a kind older broke horse comes on the scene.



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 2007
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    San Diego
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    No, actually, they DON'T have a "moral responsibility" to "prove themselves." Suggesting doing the research and consulting a professional is excellent advice.
    I agree. Hoofprince where on earth do you get that the OP has any responsibility to these complete strangers? I think she did the right thing in suggesting they hire a professional. Why would she ever get involved with a situation like this? Of course if the OP was a trainer and wanted to do so, great. But she has no moral responsibility to these people. Giving this stranger good advice was enough.

    OP did you learn that no good post at COTH goes unpunished?



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2008
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    now in KCMO, and plan to stay there
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    3,237

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    I think the original poster did a good thing by telling the Mom the things described. That is excellent that they may seek help from a boarding stable/trainer.
    Last edited by sdlbredfan; Oct. 8, 2009 at 05:25 PM. Reason: changed after reading more of the message thread
    Jeanie
    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofprince in Mud View Post
    To be blunt and to the point. If an individual is in a position to give a advice, an opinion, a lecture, on any given topic, they have the moral responsibility to be able to demonstrate or prove their advice, opinion, or lecture. It is about being able to "talk the talk, and walk the walk". If you can't walk, then you are in no position to advice other on the topic, despite the fact you have opinions.
    Having seen 'experts' on dog behavior backpedal rapidly when they actually meet the frothing Cujo they've been confidently diagnosing from afar, I have some sympathy with this position. But that really only means that boasters should be wary of being called on their bluster. The OP wasn't being a blowhard and telling the woman how to train her horse - she wasn't boasting. She basically just said "Oh, watch out for the X!" Does she need to be an arborist to say "Watch out for the falling branch?" Or a lion tamer to say "Hey, the door to the lion cage is open!"



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr. 17, 2002
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    between the barn and the pond
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofprince in Mud View Post
    The trouble is, there are more horses available than knowledgeable horsepeople. There is no way of knowing what the grandparents were thinking, but it is reasonable to assume their intentions were good.

    Is it at all possible for you to spend your valuable time with the 14 month old horse, teach it how to lead, enjoy being groomed, and standing tied, and at the same time, teach the girls safe horse handling?

    As a responsible horse person, you'd be paying it forward to help others learn. While it would be nice to be paid for your services, in the current economic situation, this might not be a viable option for people new to horses, what with paying for hay, shoeing and other related expences they didn't anticipate.

    By helping, you would be keeping the horse from becoming dinner on somebodies dinner plate.

    Too often horsepeople are critical of decisions people who have no horse knowledge make. It would make the world a better place, if horsepeople took the time to help non-horsepeople become horsepeople.

    Lecturing non-horsepeople does not win any converts to the ranks of horsepersons.
    In my experience, trying to help those who don't have a clue, for free, isn't welcomed or appreciated.

    For the buyer to humbly accept that they made a hugely bad decision, with potentially dangerous or deadly consequences, is often a very bitter pill to swallow. And a realization and a decision to find help, only happens on their own time, when they are ready.

    I overhear all manner of dangerous stuff at the feedstore, like the lady with the 3 YO mustang from the BLM that she can't halter or catch, but needs to deworm, how much to give of this stuff in her feed? The girl at the counter asked me for advice, knowing I have horses and maybe halfway know what I'm doing. I asked gently if she had a trainer or BM to help her catch the mare, etc nope, her BF has ridden some in the past, the horse is at their house, and they'll be fine, just need to find someone to buck her out and get her started. Did I know anyone who'd do it for 250 a month? Only 30 days, no more. I said no, told her how I'd deworm the filly, and walked away. My value in the workplace-in this economic situation LOL- is between my ears, I have no want, need, or desire to get hurt in an unsafe barbed wire and panel pen in some lot somewhere, or risk my neck trying to bring her here to my place, to start her for FREE, basically.

    Nope, absolutely NOT my problem.

    Want me to walk my walk? Here it is. I have a lesson student who bought the wrong mare, approximately one week before she hired me. Took me 6+ months to convince her that mare was going to hurt her. She hated to accept her mistake. FINALLY, the mare double barrelled her after bolting on the leadline. Done. She called me and said you can shoot her LOL just get her GONE. Done. Now she has a doll of a little mare she can bareback all over the woods, and does. My point? The wrong horse is the wrong horse and SHE had to find that truth, accept that SHE can't magically become seasoned, confident, and 100% able to tell that cow to knock that **** off. MY ability to ride the SOB mare all over the world was irrelevant - they were a bad match, period.


    If they come to me, we can talk. But I'm not chasing idiots down just to try to convince them they are idiots.
    Last edited by katarine; Oct. 9, 2009 at 12:31 PM. Reason: annoyance lol



  9. #49
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minerva Louise View Post
    With regards to "How on EARTH did the grandparents get this TB filly for the grandkids?" question, one possible answer lies in reading the classifieds this morning. There are three weanling TB "phillies" for sale, $200 each and they will deliver them to you!

    I am so fighting the urge to buy a weanling. I mean, where are they going to wind up for two hundred each? Ugh.
    I just saw some "phillies" on CL yesterday.
    I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

    Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul. 9, 2008
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    724

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    Quote Originally Posted by Treasmare2 View Post
    I know some people who were not horse smart and their daughters wanted to ride. They paid alot of money for highly inapproriate horses that were not nice horses. These girls became so frustrated that now the don't ride .....even after the purchase and ungrading to a fancy horse facility. It is so sad because their parent is obviously a horse loving parent that wanted to really foot the bill to get into this game big time without a clue about horses. I expect the horses scared the daughters off. Think if they had been matched with the right horses at the right stage this might have grown into a wonderful family owned facility. The poor father just keeps getting advicee from people in the indusrty dthat no ones respects and then he gets bad advise and doesn't know enough to know who to listen too. This has clearly become his hobby now and he likes hanging around the barn but is making beautiful fancy stalls before getting ring footing up to snuff. The best owners with the best horsesare staying away for now until footing is good and they feel the stable has clear operating plans so they can be assured their expensive horses will get the care they need. Anyhow my point is....the right horses may have keep the kids in the circle and now they are missing out on a great sport at a great family owned facility that is now the best in the area. But its not filled because the real horsepeople wait to hear how it is flying. Very sad.
    This is where I board.

    I don't mind the care at all & the footing in one of the indoors has been re done. New stable manager is great!

    Owner is a horse noob (and a very wealthy one: re-vamped the older barn with galvanized grills & solid pine.. the grills alone per stall were $2800 ). He's very busy and has a lot of projects on the go at once, and runs another company.

    It is a shame about his daughters horses. I haven't seen them yet and I've been boarding there for close to a month. The horses are kind & sweet enough, they just have soundness issues.



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Dec. 9, 2005
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    North East, MD
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    Quote Originally Posted by mishmash View Post
    ...Around this BB, it's darned if you do and darned if you don't. If I hadn't spoken up, would be getting slammed for that....
    Yep. Not everybody is going to agree with you. Ever.

    However, I'm not sure you need approval from anyone here. I probably would have done the same thing, but my approach would have been unique to me. If they appeared determined to keep the horse, I would have tried to point them to a good, honest trainer who might have better success convincing them the filly is the wrong choice.

    None of us was there, but you were. You have them a heads up that they are in dangerous territory. That's important.
    Last edited by matryoshka; Oct. 20, 2009 at 12:39 AM.
    "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."



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