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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2006
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    Nashville, TN
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    3,938

    Default COTH Dogs, go for it! (Starving horses in Middle TN)

    http://nashville.craigslist.org/pet/1426086567.html

    ETA: I did not post this, but I know the farm they are talking about. I used to drive past it 3x/week- there were a handful of horses there at the time, but it was two years ago and summer and they looked "Just okay"- not call-able, but I was keeping my eye open. It doesn't surprise me that they got this bad.
    Last edited by eponacowgirl; Oct. 18, 2009 at 11:09 PM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2005
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    With a dog named Rockstar
    Posts
    2,988

    Default

    Call Call Call the reporters

    Poor horses



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 21, 2007
    Posts
    117

    Default

    You just know this post will get flagged off or otherwise deleted from CL, so here it is:

    Please Help these Horses (Columbia)
    Date: 2009-10-17, 5:24PM CDT
    Reply to: comm-x5cu4-1426086567@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

    I am posting this in an effort to draw attention to these poor animals that Maury County and the State of Tennessee Department of Agriculture DOES NOT CARE about. They are located on the right just south of the intersection of Hwy 99 and Hwy 431 in Pottsville, past Marcy Jo's Mealhouse. According to Google maps, the address is 4240 Hwy 431 Columbia, TN. I called Animal Control in June when I saw 1st what horrid conditions these horses were in - horrendous feet, extremely underweight, no food, and only foul-smelling oily sludge to drink! Animal Control informed me they were unable to even come out, and referred me to Richard Gross (931)375-5301 with the Department of Agriculture, saying he must come out 1st to make the judgment call on whether there was case to get involved. He came out, viewed the animals from about 50 ft away and said, "They don't look dehydrated or too underweight to me." He used the excuse that the owner could have just bought the horses in this condition and they might improve. Well, it's been 4 months, and they are WORSE! SHOCKING. I saw them today, took pictures, called the Sherrif's office (931)380-5733, who referred me to Animal Control (931)381-0532, who says ONCE AGAIN that Richard Gross has to make the determination, so call him Monday. With this cold, these horses (particularly the gray) MIGHT NOT LIVE until Monday!! The hay he has put out is moldy cow crap hay, which is ALL these horses every get occasionally. He keeps the bales in the open exposed to the weather. Their bellies are filled with parasites, feet deplorable, with NO SHELTER and God only knows what to drink! I don't know what else to do besides evoke the power of public outcry! PLEASE wear out the numbers listed above DEMANDING something be done for these poor, suffering animals. We have a call in to Andy Cordan of "That's Messed Up" on Channel 2 WKRN. Phone calls encouraging him to bring light to the unwillingness of these State and County Employees to work would be helpful too. This is a broken system, people, and Animal Cruelty Laws MUST be enforced! It is our duty as taxpayers to ensure our public officials are earning their paychecks! No animal should be subjected to such stupidity and lack of compassion that leads to a slow, painful death. There are a lot of idiots on Craigslist, constantly trying to sell, breed, or give away their neglected, starving, unbroken, inbred pieces of crap. Those of you doing that HAVE NO BUSINESS owning horses! I am calling on those of us that read their ads and shudder at the absurdity. We must not sit idly by watching in horror as these animals are slowly tortured to death. Please help me help these horses!!!

    * Location: Columbia
    The photos won't post here, but they show at least three horses (one's ears show above the hay) that are absolute racks of bones, definitely *one's* on the starvation scale with jutting hips, spines and every rib sticking out.

    There should be criminal penalties for any state or legal authority to claim that these animals are not starving to death and to fail to enforce animal cruelty laws against the owner. (Where's the icon with steam coming out of it's ears?)



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2009
    Posts
    676

    Default

    Oh dear God... does it matter if someone not from the area calls? I'm REALLY not from the area, as I'm living in another country... but my skype number is Massachusetts. Would my call count for anything?



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2006
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    3,938



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 11, 2009
    Location
    Dairyville USA
    Posts
    2,979

    Default

    I'm calling from out of state.

    So are all the ladies in my barn.

    several times
    Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
    Sam: A job? Does it pay?
    Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
    Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 19, 2008
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    83

    Default

    Thanks EponaCowgirl!

    I am the original poster of this CL ad. I also posted it in the Farm & Garden section, but it was flagged and removed within 24 hours. This a$$hole is my neighbor. He is NOT friendly or approachable. I believe he may have been tipped off already, as he looked today like he was getting ready to load them up in a cattle trailer to God only knows where! I'm pretty convinced he's on to me as well.

    I have received many emails from people saying they would call the numbers I listed. I just don't know what else to do! I feel so horrible for these horses, and wish this guy could be punished and banned from getting any more. There are 3 in this pen and he has 2 more in another, so 5 total. He NEVER does ANYTHING with them. He must just enjoy watching animals suffer to death. I DON'T GET IT!!

    Any help or advice would be appreciated!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 19, 2008
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    83

    Default

    OHHHH You HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!

    Just saw this post in response to mine...what a crock of crap!
    Regarding "STARVING HORSES" in Columbia (Highway 431, Columbia)
    Date: 2009-10-18, 7:51PM CDT

    I personally visited the owners of this property.

    THE TRUTH

    This family took in 2 skinny / starving horses over the summer in hopes to bring them back to health and weight.
    Anyone who knows horses knows this process can take months up to a year to bring a horse back to it's healthy weight.
    It's just not something that happens over night.

    So, having seen the post here on Craigslist, and not needing any unnecessary drama in their lives, the horses have been re-homed
    by a friend of the family, they are safe and cared for...but they were anyway.

    Just a word to the wise...ASK QUESTIONS, if you see animals that look like they need help then go to the owners and ask if
    there is anything you can do to understand the situation, ask if there is anything you can do to help.

    SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND...

    Don't be so quick to judge...it happens, some people abuse and neglect, and some people reach out and help.
    These people were helping these horses out of a bad situation...

    If the poster had been truthful and honest she would have also taken photos of the FAT horses that grazed along side
    of the two skinny horses. She would have looked closer and noticed that the Hay was GOOD HORSE HAY, and the water was clean.

    I saw fat horses, good hay, clean water, and I met owners who care for their animals, and care for their horses.
    I was given a tour of the farm, the pasture was good, there was good hay outside for the horses and good hay stored in the barn.
    They are doing better then most in these hard times.

    God Bless and thank you for caring, but next time...KNOCK ON THE DOOR AND ASK WHAT THE SITUATION IS.

    Anyone who wants proof...I will go back to take photos...as I was invited to return to do so.
    Not true, NOT TRUE!!! These horses looked skinny but marginally better in JUNE, so CLEARLY this guy doesn't know shit about rehabing!! And the "pasture that was good" HAD TO HAVE BEEN MINE in the background, because this guy HAS NO PASTURE! WTF?!?!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,227

    Default

    Where to begin:

    I agree if he has been rehabbing these horses since June they should look better than they do.

    HOWEVER By most state laws if the horses have access to food and water and are provided shelter there is NOTHING animal control can do. No matter how much you rant & rave. It is the LAW in most states. WHY? Because there are varying degrees of accepted animal husbandry. Food Water Shelter are the primary components.

    Now lets address the horses:

    They look horrible - BUT they do not need pasture to put on weight. I know many many certified rehabilitators that do not have pasture - it is NOT necessary.

    It takes at least a year to rehabilitate an emaciated horse.

    The fences and grounds look well tended and secure.

    Most likely this owner needs a veterinarian and dentist to help him.

    As far as posting on CL - i think I would have at the very least made it a "blind box" so they would have a hard time tracing you. I do not think i would make such a derogatory CL posting with the ability for someone to contact me and certainly would not have done so on my neighbor.

    Now your plan has backfired and the horses a g-o-n-e. So whats the point? It's too bad so sad for them. And you are even more fired up and pissed off but now impotent. So this did not serve you or the horses very well.

    It can be very difficult to get action on an animal in peril. But I think you may have gone off half cocked here by not knowing the humane standards for your state. THAT is why the authorities did not do anything via your prior complaints. If you do not like the "food water shelter" standard then you must try and change the statuate/law.

    I know how frustrating it is! But you need to have a new strategy if you do this in the future. Now the horses are gone and the neighbor knows you outed them - things are not going to go well. Sorry
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 19, 2008
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    83

    Default

    Woodland - let me start by saying I'm sure you mean well, but we're not quite reading off the same page here.

    First of all, as I stated in my CL post, I called the authorities back in June because the horses had NO WATER. The Ag agent acknowledged that they had NO WATER, and also pointed out that they had NO SHELTER, and still did NOTHING!

    Second, these horses are in poorer condition (the Ag Agent even commented on the gray back in June) now, going into winter (in the 30's the past 2 nights here) and HAVE NO SHELTER!

    I am not oblivious to the laws in my state.

    I never said pasture was necessary to rehab, but clean water, good quality hay and feed, shelter, proper veterinary (including teeth & deworming) and farrier care ARE. If you seriously believe this guy has done that, then why would he not just prove it. I can show where the animals in my care are receiving all that. He clearly has something to hide.

    Also, their are SEVERAL neighbors who are disgusted by his poor husbandry, not just me. Apparently, the pictures do not adequately show the ramshackle way in which these animals are enclosed - rusted, jagged fence panels of all types, old furniture, etc. tied together with bailing twine and wire.

    I did not "out" myself in the CL post. The one person who KNOWS I was the one blowing the whistle is the Animal Control Officer I called, who has a long history of tipping off animal abusers and turning the focus back on the ones trying to help the animals. The Ag Agent also had to view the animals from my property back in June, because they "have no authority to go on someone's property even if a complaint has been filed."

    I am saddened that these horses will not get the help they deserve, but if the Ag Agent had done his job the way the Law states BACK IN JUNE, he and an officer, and a vet (my vet used to go out on call like this ALL THE TIME) would have paid said owner a visit, pointed out some issues, asked what was going on, and given them pointers for rehabbing emaciated horses and checked back in 30 days to see if the plan had been implemented, they wouldn't be in the situation they are now.

    I posted what I did on CL, to get others to help, and make them aware of how lax the enforcement of the BASIC NEEDS LAWS are. It is obvious to me that we no longer live in a world where "Doing the Right Thing" is applauded. Instead, we are demonized and labeled as busy-bodies. Furthermore, I did NOT go off half-cocked, but sought the council of SEVERAL activists in the area who have been fighting this fight with these government officials FOR YEARS! I went about it the way they suggested. I didn't work. I get it. But at least I can go to bed at night knowing that I TRIED!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2005
    Location
    With a dog named Rockstar
    Posts
    2,988

    Default

    BHS.
    You did good. You tried.

    The condition of those horses is inexcusable.

    And NO, it does not need to take a year to rehab a horse. We've had horses in their 20's and 30's look remarkably better in weeks- and gain hundreds of pounds in months- even on a very conservative feeding plan.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2005
    Location
    Winter Park, Florida
    Posts
    3,572

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FatPalomino View Post
    BHS.
    You did good. You tried.

    The condition of those horses is inexcusable.

    And NO, it does not need to take a year to rehab a horse. We've had horses in their 20's and 30's look remarkably better in weeks- and gain hundreds of pounds in months- even on a very conservative feeding plan.
    Yep..it is amazing how fast a horse can bounce back with FOOD! Imagine that! Our rescues are usually looking pretty damn good in even weeks in some cases and definitely within months.
    Lori T
    www.calypsofarmeventers.blogspot.com
    www.facebook.com/LTEquine for product updates on the lines I rep



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2003
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    5,412

    Default

    Call the local news stations, newspapers and contact the Governor's office and DA -- tell them this guy investigating is NOT doing his job. Probably too lazy, paid off or related -- the good ole boy crap. You have to rattle the cages, go to the top. Are there any horse rescues anywhere nearby? Even a small animal rescue might have some contacts. Good luck --
    PennyG



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 19, 2008
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    83

    Default

    Thought you might want an update.

    This was posted earlier this evening, I am certain, by the owner of the horses.
    I went to the farm with the alleged STARVING HORSES...

    The POSTER claims to have taken this photo on Sunday, October 18th as she posted at 5am Sunday morning...
    the top left photo is her photo, again, supposedly taken Sunday. Notice the round bale of hay...

    The top right photo is one I took today (Monday 10/19/09)....so how is it that ithe round bale is more then half eaten in less then 24 hours?
    The round bale, the hay around it, the color...it's not the same bale, but it is in the exact same location....hummmm

    BECAUSE THE HER PHOTOS WERE TAKEN MORE THEN 4 MONTHS AGO NOT SUNDAY 10/18/09

    The original POSTER said quote " We must not sit idly by watching in horror as these animals are slowly tortured to death. Please help me help these horses!!! "

    Why did you, a neighbor, sit idly by, watching from your pasture (photo bottom left) in stead of knocking on your neighbors door to ask if you could let the
    skinny horses graze on your pasture along side your make-shift Hunter/Jumper outdoor arena, and eat your hay you bought with your hard earned cash?

    Why?
    And how is it that that sludge, oil polluted water from Sunday looked like this today?

    Oh, and one more tidbit of information....

    The paint horse on the farm is 12 years old and was purchased as yearling...I saw the papers, the proof of sale, and I personally know
    the woman who delivered the colt to the farm YEARS ago...as far as the other two horses, they too were there far before the two skinny horses
    were ever brought to the farm. So don't try to say that the FAT 3 are new, and the 2 Skinny horses are the owners old horses...
    IT'S NOT TRUE.

    You're a liar, and you need to mind your own business...or maybe, like I said before, instead of trying to cause trouble
    Offer to help YOURSELF ... your lies are just why people don't want to get involved...this guy tried to help and look what happened.

    YOU RAN THE HORSES OFF THE FARM...BUT YOU CAN'T RUN THE ONWERS OFF THEIR FARM
    And this was my reply (my ONLY post besides the original) -
    Dear Poster (or shall I call you Starving Horse Owner?),

    Thank you for showing the intelligent, caring people of Craigslist the lengths to which you will go to avoid responsibility. The pictures shown in the original post were taken Saturday October 17, 2009 at 2:05 in the afternoon. They are time and date stamped, and I would be happy to provide proof to whatever authorities or concerned citizens give a damn.

    Please note the triangular trusses leaned up against the telephone pole in the background of the picture I took, and the hay bale's relation to the fence panels. Then look at the trusses WAY in the background of the picture you took today. Your picture is CLEARLY of the hay bale in the next paddock over. Thank you for giving visual proof of your fabrication and desperate attempt to discredit the truth.

    You have never asked for my help. I would have been more than willing to give you advice on rehabbing horses in poor condition, including the names and numbers of my vet, farrier, equine dentist, hay supplier, feed specialist, equine nutritionist, and chiropractor. Obviously, you were not interested in "help", or you would have asked for it. As far as allowing your horses to graze on my properly maintained pasture (thank you for the beautiful picture), I would have been happy to care for them as I do all the other horses on my farm. However, I do not offer pasture board, and I doubt you would have been interested in the Full Board or Rehabilitation Board I offer as a service to my clients, since you were evidently unable to afford to successfully rehab these horses on your own. Furthermore, ALL horses on my property must have a negative coggins, be current on ALL vaccinations, and agree to pay for REGULAR veterinary care, farrier, dentist, etc. as scheduled by me to maintain a healthy environment. I am certain you wouldn't have found my level of care to be your "cup of tea."

    I find it shameful that you are blaming ME for not forcing a handout down your throat! I do not run a rescue, though I could have helped you find one to surrender your animals to. I run a business. I work VERY hard, and have vastly improved our farm, as applauded by several other neighbors, since moving in this June. Those horses are NOT my responsibility. They are yours! You are failing them miserably and causing them unnecessary suffering due to your ignorance and blatant arrogance.

    If you TRULY have nothing to hide, why did you go to great lengths to remove the starving horses from your farm before the authorities could come to investigate? If you were honestly trying to improve their condition, why not offer receipts, canceled checks, records etc. from your vet, farrier, feed supplier and such?

    And since you seem to have a problem paying attention, I will repeat the fact stated in the original post, that I called the authorities in early June because one of your horses was without potable water. It was one of the chestnuts, and he was in the small pen at the back, where I could see his water container. His feet were some of the worst I had ever seen. We DID carry a full bucket of water back to him, since we could reach him from our property, and let him drink through the fence. He gulped down AN ENTIRE BUCKET in mere seconds. What's that saying about "leading a horse to water..."?

    The bottom line is this - I don't want to "run you off your farm." I, quite frankly, don't want anything to do with you. I just want what we all want from each other in life, to be responsible for our actions. You CHOSE to have those horses on your property. You CHOSE to manage them the way you did. You CHOSE to remove the evidence. You are CHOOSING to point the finger at me, as though I am on some vindictive witch hunt. I can assure you, I have plenty to keep me occupied. This whole thing has made me realize why there are so few people today who CHOSE to do the right thing. I pray those horses are in a better place, where they will get the care they deserve, and that justice will find you one day for what you have done.
    http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/IMG00131.jpg
    http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...31/haybale.jpg



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2007
    Posts
    91

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatPalomino View Post
    BHS.
    You did good. You tried.

    The condition of those horses is inexcusable.

    And NO, it does not need to take a year to rehab a horse. We've had horses in their 20's and 30's look remarkably better in weeks- and gain hundreds of pounds in months- even on a very conservative feeding plan.
    +1 to what FatPalomino said. It doesn't take that long to notice a difference in a horse, given good nutrition and reasonable care. I didn't take pictures of my last rescue (Charles) when I acquired him; but after two months you couldn't recognize him. And Charles is in his mid-30's per the vet.

    I concede that times are hard, people losing jobs and changes of circumstance are rampant. But if you know you can't feed your horses, put out ads and such to re-home them. There are always people like me; and others, that can give homes to horses that have no where else to go.

    As a horse owner it's a responsibility to ensure that your horse has a good life. Horse ownership isn't an ego trip; it's a responsibility! If you can't do it, find someone that can. If you can't find someone; Keep Friggin' Trying!!!!!

    Would these people let their children starve?
    On hoofbeats and heartbeats, your love came to me. With carrots and kisses, I now set you free.
    RIP, my beloved RootBeer (4/1973-8/2007)



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