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  1. #1
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    Default Lets discuss Breed generalizations/stereotypes

    ?
    Last edited by _downpour_; May. 9, 2010 at 05:55 PM.



  2. #2
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    Not sure I recognise any of the descriptors you've suggested as being typical.

    As such I'm thinking perhaps they're just yours and not generalisations.

    Having said that breeds do indeed have "reputations" and "stereotypes" or "generalisations".

    I personally would be seriously concerned if they didn't fall within general classifications for behaviour and temperament.

    After all animal husbandry and specifically (good) horse breeding is exactly about breeding to retain and improve and hone for purpose and type and disposition.

    So IMO it would be an extrememly bad thing if say arabs (anything) were so variable that you couldn't have predictability about what their temperament was most likely to be and what they were most likely to do well at.



  3. #3
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    I already disagree with you on your arab and connemara stereotypes



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by _downpour_ View Post
    Arab - crazy, hot headed hoon/can jump the moon!
    I have NEVER heard ANYONE say that Arabs "can jump the moon!"

    I hear "Arabs can't jump". and I hear "jumps like an arab" as a description of a bad/dangerous jumper.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  5. #5
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    I've heard of several good Anglo-Arabian jumpers, but usually when people say "jumps like an Arab", they mean a jump as flat as an ironing board.

    I've known a couple of Connemaras, and the thing they had in common is they had one gear -- fast -- and they *loved* to jump. They were jumping machines.



  6. #6
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    I'd agree that arabs tend to hurdle when they jump.

    Connemaras are athletic and bold and all too often cleverer than those that ride them



  7. #7
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    "Warmblood" is not a breed, either.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas_1 View Post
    I'd agree that arabs tend to hurdle when they jump.

    Connemaras are athletic and bold and all too often cleverer than those that ride them
    echo
    and along with the connies are the welshies and they to are athletic
    and good all rounders



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    I've heard of several good Anglo-Arabian jumpers, but usually when people say "jumps like an Arab", they mean a jump as flat as an ironing board.

    I've known a couple of Connemaras, and the thing they had in common is they had one gear -- fast -- and they *loved* to jump. They were jumping machines.
    Raffles lines are usually decent jumpers. My little mare, who resembles the Raffles line, has a beautiful bascule. And she's quite reactive, as one expects from an Arabian.

    I agree with Thomas about stereotypes. If they couldn't be classified in some general way, there wouldn't be different breeds.

    Here's some of my own generalizations:

    Morgan: good hoof quality. Won't let generally let you hurt them and can be awesome horses in the right hands. Or hell on hooves in the wrong hands.
    TB: can be reactive, but are usually quite athletic. May need help processing new things, but once they learn something, it sticks with them, good or bad.
    WB: as variable as the registries. Not usually as sensitive as Arabs and TB's.
    Welsh: athletic. Takes a smart rider.
    Appaloosas: a good Appy is hard to beat, but a bad one is a real problem. People can get hurt. Stoic.
    QH: again, it is tough to find a better horse than a good QH. However, those engines make them scary if they choose to use their powers for evil instead of good.

    That's the short list.
    "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."



  10. #10
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    Apr. 10, 2005
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    Spring, TX
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    Dem Saddlebreds is crazy.

    Such a stereotype and don't at ALL accurate.



  11. #11
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    Ah, breed stereotypes!

    Appy: Stubborn, smart, conniving, hardy, sound, easy keepers, etc. All true - IF you are talking about REAL Appies and not Quarterloosas. And I love 'em for it. My last four horses have all been Appies, two foundation types (both big, however), one Foundation/TB 2nd gen crosss (the one in my profile), and now a Foundation/Arab cross. THey have all been not western horses, but eventers, H/J and dressage (and always trail riding).

    I also find I have to combat the "ugly" Appaloosa stereotype. So few people seem to realize that this was a breed almost totally destroyed by the U. S. Government in its efforts to control the Native American Nez Perce. Many were crossed with draft, and so you would get the platter footed, extreme roman-nosed, coarse Appies thereafter. But the original horses were NOT of that type. Out crossing was necessary to recover the breed, but now the ApHC has gone overboard converting them to "Quarterloosas" but if you look at the true Foundation types - the lighter, endurance bloodlines (which do tend to be small), or the mostly Foundation line horses of JG or Confetti farms, and you can see the non-QH Appy types. Of course, if plain bay is your favorite color, you ain't gonna like an Appy. LOL ALso, not to say there's anything wrong with QHs, but Appies should not be QH clones.

    I have also found them - on my sampling of four owned plus acquaintance with many others - to be kind, calm, and all or nothing jumpers - all of mine were excellent jumpers, but I had experience of others that were "no way!" types. I've never known one that was an indifferent jumper or with poor/dangerous form - they either jumped well, or didn't jump at all.

    There is some truth to the saying that the Appy mantra is "don't get mad, get even." I saw an abused Appy stallion acquiesce to his trainer's demands in warmup (and I couldn't see that the horse was doing anything wrong that his trainer was jerking him around so much), then go into the show arena and refuse to stop in the "run and slide" portion of his reining pattern, ridding himself of his abusive rider.

    My Appies, particularly the eventing ones, really knew if you "liked" them or not, and would do anything for someone they perceived liked them, and refused to do much for other riders who didn't seem to like them. Once, when I was ill, I asked a friend to get my eventer out and give him some exercise. She rode on our galloping track with a friend of mine on a TB. She couldn't get my Appy out of a jolting, pissy trot. Of course, she had mounted him saying "I can't stand this horse. He has no personalty." My friend on the TB commented that if there was one thing that horse liked to do it was gallop, so they switched horses. My Appy instantly galloped out on the lightest of aids for my friend (who liked him!). She laughed and said to the other gal, "You may not LIKE his personality...but he's got LOTS of it!" I later loaned him to the gal who liked him, who was mostly a pleasure rider who jumped very little, and she took him to a Novice horse trial and finished 4th in her division, 7th overall out of over 35 horses. (Yes, he was a confirmed preliminary horse - her biggest feat was to stop him from going too fast at Novice! LOL)

    Now, I agree that these characteristics can be part of the personalty of horses of any breed, but they seem more emphasized in Appies. There is also an element of the Arab, "show me" attitude: "explain" some thing to them reasonably, rather than demand it, and they will willingly perform. Try to force them, and well.....all I can say is "watch your back." LOL

    Now I have an Arab/App. I had hoped for Arab "go" and Appy calm. Since he's still pretty green (5), I'm not sure quite what I've got yet - he seems to have an A-rab OMG!!! reaction to some things..... then sort of slaps himself and says, "Why did I do that, I'm an Appy!!" and goes calmly on his way. THe other night he semi-bolted with me 3 times in the outdoor arena because of a dog, a loud car starting up and a jackrabbit. But on the trail, he's been close to unflappable. Go figure. As he matures, the Appy side seems to be coming forward more. (No dis on Arabs - just I gravitate more to the Appy personality).

    Oh man, I DO go on, don't I. I just LOVE my Apps!!!



  12. #12
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    I like Appy crosses, especially with an Arabian.
    "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by matryoshka View Post
    Raffles lines are usually decent jumpers. My little mare, who resembles the Raffles line, has a beautiful bascule.
    A *lot* of Arabians in the US have Raffle in their pedigree, and a lot of them have the flat jump. It doesn't mean they all do, but that's the stereotype. Lots of people event Arabians at the lower levels (novice, training) and they are perfectly safe. And I'm sure there are Arabians eventing and jumping at higher levels than that. I used to ride a little Arabian (his owners planned on using him for endurance and ride and tie) and I rode him at a hunter pace over novice level jumps. He was great, even round over the jumps. I wonder if he would have kept jumping that way or if it was because he was so green and looking at the jumps a lot. lol

    There are talented horses in every breed, but the typical Arabian isn't a showjumping or top eventing type of horse. There were and are Arabians who could be good in a jumping program, obviously -- Ramzes was a Shagya Arabian (I know that's not the same as a pure Arabian!), and the French have developed a beautiful jumping Anglo-Arabian breed. I have long been curious about the Arabians used by the Europeans. Even if they come from some of the same lines, the individuals must look different from the typical Arabian often seen here. (I know I'm going to get poked at for this, because Arabians are a pretty variable breed, but I think you know what I mean!)



  14. #14
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    Okay, I'll amend my statement to say there were local breeders who favored the Raffles lines that produced good jumpers. My mare looks like 'em, and jumps like 'em, but I don't know her pedigree. The Arabians I grew up riding did not have a level croup and stepped under themselves well.

    I have very little experience with other types of Arabs, other than seeing them at endurance rides and CTR. Not much jumping called for there.
    "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."



  15. #15
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    I didn't say that Arabs never jump well. There are some who do.

    But the STEREOTYPE is that Arabs do NOT jump well.

    And there are some Connemaras that do NOT jump well.

    But the STEREOTYPE is that Connemaras DO jump well.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  16. #16
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    Rightly said, Janet.



  17. #17
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    Janet no one is talking about you. What's with all the CAPS?



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy M View Post

    There is some truth to the saying that the Appy mantra is "don't get mad, get even." I saw an abused Appy stallion acquiesce to his trainer's demands in warmup (and I couldn't see that the horse was doing anything wrong that his trainer was jerking him around so much), then go into the show arena and refuse to stop in the "run and slide" portion of his reining pattern, ridding himself of his abusive rider.
    Have you heard this joke on appies?

    Why did the Indians ride Appaloosas into battle?















    So they'd be mad as hell when they got there!


    Now I have several appaloosa marked Colonial Spanish/Spanish Mustang horses...probably quite close to the original Nez Perce type...and I do love them. My favorite is this colt...the first one on this page. He is old time appy right down to his ratty little tail. Nice minded colt too...I'm looking forward to seeing him grow up a bit more.

    http://www.rbefarm.com/Rainbows_End_..._Geldings.html

    I like to call their unique personalities as "appytude."



  19. #19
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    Morgans -- smart, self-preserving, great hooves, long-lived, sound, easy keepers (sometimes too easy), small, full of personality and joie de vivre. Also (can be) VERY hot and quick.

    My mare fits a lot of that. They are horses you have a conversation with, rather than telling them what to do and expecting instant obedience. She will test me to see if I'm paying attention, or just because. She's nosy and wiggly. She can be very quick, and handles like a sports car. She's had some minor soundness issues but all are dealt with, and she is not the world's easiest keeper, but if she has hay in front of her at all times she is easier, and happier.

    I really think they are the most underappreciated American breed, possibly second to the Standardbreds (which have very similar pedigrees if you go back far enough.) They are not for everyone, especially because they are a little hotter and need to be worked. It took me over a year to really feel comfortable with my mare, but now I just love her. But I do wish more folks would give them a try; there are sport-bred Morgans out there and many are large pony sized and great for kids or anyone who is old enough to be tired of tumbling off 17 hand beasties.

    BTW -- did you know that Quarter Horses have a lot of Morgan blood in them? They were quite favored for crossing with "ranch mares" for the first half of the 20th century. They were also used a lot as US Remount sires in the Midwest and West. And there are still ranches that use Morgans exclusively for cow work.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietann View Post
    I really think they are the most underappreciated American breed, possibly second to the Standardbreds (which have very similar pedigrees if you go back far enough.)
    I respectfully disagree ...IMO the number one most underappreciated and unvalued and largely unknown American breed are the Colonial Spanish horses in their various strains and types. They were America's First horses after being brought here by the Spanish and today are still considered endangered or threatened in all strains. They were used in the formation of QH's as late as the 1950's, were one half of the foundation of the original QH (Colonial Short Horse created by crossing Chickasaw ponies and TB's) and almost certainly figure into the formation of all the early American breeds and all American gaited breeds. Indeed the main reason they are so rare in modern times, is that they were nearly bred or crossed into extinction.

    If I can give a breed generalization for temperament or traits on the Colonial Spanish it would be that they tend to be stoic, calm, and kind natured, bond strongly with people. They are often one person horses, loyal, intelligent, and will not tolerate abusive rough handling. There are some exceptions definitely and a problem can be a streak of "wildness" in some but good breeders are trying to moderate that influence.

    BTW...I also love Morgans...I owned and competed a TB/Morgan for years in eventing.



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