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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 12, 2008
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    345

    Default Beginner Novice Restricted A&B

    Can someone explain to me what the "restricted" means in this? Also, what is the fence height in Green as Grass and Novice?

    Thank you so much.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
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    12,281

    Default

    Green as grass can mean anywhere from 12 inch crossrails to 2 foot crossrails, to 2 foot verticals, to 2 foot verticals and 2' 3" oxers on stadium and 12 inch logs to 2' logs, coops, and houses on XC. It really varies so make sure you ask.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 12, 2008
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    345

    Default

    thank you SO much. Any idea of what does the "restricted" mean in the BN division?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2008
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    1,878

    Default

    Agreed "Green as Grass" can vary from show to show but is usually a pretty good step down from Beginner Novice (often 18"; 2'0, or sometimes 2'3").

    Regulation Beginner Novice is a max of 2'7" although I have seen fences at 2'9" fairly regularly and even a 2'11" oxer on a stadium course at a recognized show. Not sure if it was intentional or they just forgot to lower it from Novice.

    Regulation Novice is a max of 2'11" but brush can be a few inches higher than that.

    Restricted divisions usually limit how high the rider has shown (for example, "restricted to riders that have not shown at Beginner Novice or Above" or "restricted to horses and riders that have not competed above Beginner Novice"). Ask the Show Secretary if it isn't spelled out in the omnibus/premium.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
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    Indiana
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    I am moving up from GAG to BN and if I saw a 2' 9" or 2' 11" fence on my stadium course I'd definetly say something and not compete until it was at regulation height!

    At the beginning of the year or at schooling events specializing in beginners (or facilities that know they get some people with questionable skills) you will find BN to be closer to 2' 3" or 2' 6" with narrower oxers and few lines but recognized/end of the year events have the fences set at regulation height and width.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
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    35,631

    Default

    Novice and Beginner Novice are official levels, and the heights are defined in the rule book.

    Beginner Novice is 2'7" and Novice is 2'11"

    But if it is an unrecognized event, the heights may be different. Check with the secretarty or organizer.

    Green as Grass is not an official level, so it means whatever the organizer says it means. It could be 18", it could be 2'3".

    Similarly, "Restricted" is not an official term, and means whatever the organizer defines it to mean.

    Aroynd here, "Restricted Novice", for example, usually means that the rider must be eligible for Novice Rider (no more than 2 completions at Training or above in the last 24 months), AND the horse must be eligible for Novice Horse (never completed at Training)
    Last edited by Janet; Sep. 21, 2009 at 10:36 PM.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2008
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    1,878

    Default

    I believe there is a "two inch" rule which means fences can be up to 2" higher than the regulation height and I have seen quite a few 2'9" BN fences in my day. I'm not thrilled about it either but I now make sure that I am jumping 2'9 courses comfortably, with a few 2'11" fences thrown in for good measure before any BN show.

    Yes, schooling show and SOME recognized shows early in the year have lower fence heights, but at least in my neck of the woods, you better not count on it at BN.

    I was kind of ticked off about the 2'11" oxer on BN myself, but was on an old campaigner who I was going to move up to Novice on so I didn't make an issue of it (but I do still hold a bit of a grudge since it was several years ago and I still bring it up!). It was in the fall, so I wasn't sure if they forgot to lower it or intentionally left it up. To be fair, I don't think a single horse/rider had trouble with it (it was the last fence headed back towards the in gate, which probably helped).

    BN is getting more standard, but there are always those CD's that think there is no difference between 2'6" and 2'9" or even 2'11". Most of us riders think there is a BIG difference!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2008
    Posts
    472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SevenDogs View Post
    I believe there is a "two inch" rule which means fences can be up to 2" higher than the regulation height and I have seen quite a few 2'9" BN fences in my day. I'm not thrilled about it either but I now make sure that I am jumping 2'9 courses comfortably, with a few 2'11" fences thrown in for good measure before any BN show.

    Yes, schooling show and SOME recognized shows early in the year have lower fence heights, but at least in my neck of the woods, you better not count on it at BN.

    I was kind of ticked off about the 2'11" oxer on BN myself, but was on an old campaigner who I was going to move up to Novice on so I didn't make an issue of it (but I do still hold a bit of a grudge since it was several years ago and I still bring it up!). It was in the fall, so I wasn't sure if they forgot to lower it or intentionally left it up. To be fair, I don't think a single horse/rider had trouble with it (it was the last fence headed back towards the in gate, which probably helped).

    BN is getting more standard, but there are always those CD's that think there is no difference between 2'6" and 2'9" or even 2'11". Most of us riders think there is a BIG difference!
    Where was the TD in that show to allow 2'11" at BN?
    ___________________________________________
    "Another member of the Barefoot Eventers Clique"



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clm08 View Post
    Where was the TD in that show to allow 2'11" at BN?
    Probably out on cross country.

    Often the TD does not get the chance to re-measure on every course change becuase of being busy elsewhere. Whoever was in charge of resetting the course SHOULD have caught it, but sometimes things fall between the cracks. If you noticed it while walking the course you could/should ask.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2008
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    It was the last oxer on stadium -- did not move at all from Novice.

    I definitely could have asked, but didn't. Again, it was several years ago and things were not a clearly defined at BN at the time (max heights were more of a "suggestion" and officials were more likely then to shrug it off). I think it was intentional (because it was fall, it was the last fence on course, etc., etc.) but I didn't ask or point it out. It was the last day, they were pushing the levels through, and course walks were brief. But, I never forgot it (obviously!) and always make sure that I have jumped at least one 3'0" oxer before I compete BN.



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