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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2009
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    134

    Default Junior hunters w/o doing the 1st years

    I'm new here - so "hi" - here's my question......

    We have a nice horse that we are planning on doing the juniors with in the new show year. I'm pretty sure at this point we are not going to do any shows in the 1st years because our training situation is a little tricky - we love our trainer as a trainer but she does not ride this horse particularly well.

    I can reach out to have a friend who is a pro to do one or two 1st year rides before she leaves for Fla but it might cause some *very* ruffled feathers. WWYD???

    TIA!!!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2007
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    6,659

    Default

    If you are competent to ride the horse in the juniors, show your own horse in the 1st years if you want it to have that on its show record. If you don't care about the record, go forth and enjoy the juniors.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2004
    Location
    Ct
    Posts
    2,683

    Default

    Agree with above poster - if you don't care about the 1st record then don't worry about it as long as the ride the horse will be getting is good.

    The horse, Huntington, in our neighboring zone didn't do the greens but his owner/rider is a trainer's kid.....



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 19, 2002
    Location
    FL transplant from IL
    Posts
    7,180

    Default

    Why does the horse need to show in the 1st years? Does it need some mileage before the junior shows it? Is the junior rider a good rider or do they want the horse to jump around before they do it?

    Personally if the horse didn't need the extra showing for mileage or confidence building & the junior was a strong enough rider to get the job done in the junior ring, I would skip it. Save the horse & save yourself some money. Or let the junior show in the 1st years.
    "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2009
    Posts
    134

    Default

    The rider is my daughter and neither the trainer or I have any issues with her doing the horse in the juniors but I thought it was not *done* to have the horse show only in the jrs w/o any 1st year rides.......



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2006
    Posts
    337

    Default

    I don't think there is any written rule that says you have to campaign a horse in the first years but there are reasons to consider doing it that mostly relate to increasing the value/notariety of the animal...only you can know if, given your situation and the talent of the horse, if that would be necessary and if it's important enough to you as an owner to risk ruffling some feathers.

    I will add, not that you asked, but I'd also count it as a strike against my trainer if they weren't big enough to recognize that they weren't the right ride for the horse and to help me find the best person who is (which in fact was a situation I found myself in a few years ago). My horse needed the extra mileage in the ring, and similar to you, my trainer just didn't get along with his high strung personality, i.e. they could totally ride him but they knew the horse and he could get ribbons but also knew that those ribbons could possibly be even better with another rider, so they helped me find the person who ended up showing the horse for us.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug. 1, 2003
    Location
    Georgia.
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    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by southernbell View Post
    The rider is my daughter and neither the trainer or I have any issues with her doing the horse in the juniors but I thought it was not *done* to have the horse show only in the jrs w/o any 1st year rides.......
    One thing to remember is that 1st year classes are normally during the week so that may not fit into her your daughter's schedule. She could ride in the classes if the trainer thought if she was ready.

    The horse doesn't have to do 1st years unless he needed mileage or you wanted to have him shown in 1st years for points, etc. Personally I would think if your trainer knew she didn't want to ride the horse, then she would help find an appropriate pro to show the horse.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
    Location
    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
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    11,820

    Default

    I am guessing that the question is not so much about the horse's record but whether the horse ought to have a couple of his first trips at 3'6" piloted by a capable pro before the OP's daughter tries to move up on him.

    If that is the case...frankly I would suggest the pro rides. The confidence gains for both horse and the kid that would come of having some successful, solid trips could really be invaluable.

    The ruffled feather issue is a tricky one but it is usually possible to attend a show that is, er... not convenient for the pro one wishes not to offend.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2009
    Posts
    134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucassb View Post
    I am guessing that the question is not so much about the horse's record but whether the horse ought to have a couple of his first trips at 3'6" piloted by a capable pro before the OP's daughter tries to move up on him.

    If that is the case...frankly I would suggest the pro rides. The confidence gains for both horse and the kid that would come of having some successful, solid trips could really be invaluable.

    The ruffled feather issue is a tricky one but it is usually possible to attend a show that is, er... not convenient for the pro one wishes not to offend.
    Lucassb - you are understanding my dilema perfectly

    We only really care about the horse's record in the juniors, but I do agree that having a pro ride the first time or two can only help the horse and if the horse did both divisions at one or two shows, it would be a lot but that would not be his show schedule for the rest of the year.....

    The horse is young, brave and very willing, so I want his foundation to be good.

    I guess our real problem is the ruffled feathers - my daughter is loyal to a fault sometimes and while she realizes that our trainer is not the right rider in this case she is worried about hurt feelings and whatnot. My kid is a nice rider and works hard but is not the trainers favorite by any means (not that it really matters to her BUT....) so she is also worried that by asking another pro to do the ride, she will sink to the bottom of the pile and even if we go to a show that our trainer would not be at - they ALWAYS find out - LOL!!

    what to do, what to do.......

    ETA - I don't think it would even occur to our trainer A) should the horse do the first years and B) who should the trainer find to do the ride if we felt we wanted it
    Last edited by southernbell; Sep. 17, 2009 at 04:57 PM.



  10. #10

    Default

    ouch - maybe new trainer?

    And in reference to the above example of Huntington - no it did not do first years on a regular basis, but it prior to the juniors it did do a year of childrens, and had some pro rides in the lows and hi-lows. And the first year in the juniors was a little rough - even with pro rides at home, in the morning and some hi-lows. It should have done the first years on a more regular basis but the kid was young and it was ok to have a few 'learning' shows. This year that horse has been fabulous consistently.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 2001
    Location
    Northern Virginia
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    1,283

    Default

    Sounds like its time for a new trainer.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2007
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    SE Pennsylvania
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    1,042

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by southernbell View Post
    The rider is my daughter and neither the trainer or I have any issues with her doing the horse in the juniors but I thought it was not *done* to have the horse show only in the jrs w/o any 1st year rides.......
    I know of quite a few junior horses who did not/currently do not, show in the first years along with jrs. I don't think it's necessary but if you think your daughter can do it, I'd say go for it if the divisions fit in with your schedule.
    Michigan State University College of Veterinary Medicine - Class of 2014

    Chance Encounter
    RIP Tall Tales



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernbell View Post
    ETA - I don't think it would even occur to our trainer A) should the horse do the first years and B) who should the trainer find to do the ride if we felt we wanted it
    Have you actually TALKED to your trainer about this? Because if not then that's is your answer. Simple communication approached in a business like manner will solve most problems . Just tell her your concerns and that you want the horse to do the first years with a pro and ask for her recs so she can feel involved in the decision.

    If she is so deeply offended she 'fires' you as a client then she clearly isn't a trainer worth subsidizing with your hard earned money. If she's smart she'll recognize that you just want to do what is best for the horse and your daughter and help you.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug. 1, 2003
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    Georgia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorthTheWait95 View Post
    Have you actually TALKED to your trainer about this? Because if not then that's is your answer. Simple communication approached in a business like manner will solve most problems . Just tell her your concerns and that you want the horse to do the first years with a pro and ask for her recs so she can feel involved in the decision.

    If she is so deeply offended she 'fires' you as a client then she clearly isn't a trainer worth subsidizing with your hard earned money. If she's smart she'll recognize that you just want to do what is best for the horse and your daughter and help you.
    Excellent post - I agree 100%!!!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2007
    Posts
    261

    Default

    I started my horse in the A/Os this year without him having any 3'6 show experience. I have had one of my trainers that i ship to sometimes ride him and school him over 3'6 a few times, but thats about it. We are doing well considering the horses and their experience that ive showed against so far.
    P=N
    If you run out of patience, you run out of nice.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2009
    Posts
    134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WorthTheWait95 View Post
    Have you actually TALKED to your trainer about this? Because if not then that's is your answer. Simple communication approached in a business like manner will solve most problems . Just tell her your concerns and that you want the horse to do the first years with a pro and ask for her recs so she can feel involved in the decision.

    If she is so deeply offended she 'fires' you as a client then she clearly isn't a trainer worth subsidizing with your hard earned money. If she's smart she'll recognize that you just want to do what is best for the horse and your daughter and help you.
    I have mentioned it, yes and but have not pressed the issue as yet.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
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    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
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    11,820

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    Quote Originally Posted by southernbell View Post
    Lucassb - you are understanding my dilema perfectly

    We only really care about the horse's record in the juniors, but I do agree that having a pro ride the first time or two can only help the horse and if the horse did both divisions at one or two shows, it would be a lot but that would not be his show schedule for the rest of the year.....

    The horse is young, brave and very willing, so I want his foundation to be good.

    I guess our real problem is the ruffled feathers - my daughter is loyal to a fault sometimes and while she realizes that our trainer is not the right rider in this case she is worried about hurt feelings and whatnot. My kid is a nice rider and works hard but is not the trainers favorite by any means (not that it really matters to her BUT....) so she is also worried that by asking another pro to do the ride, she will sink to the bottom of the pile and even if we go to a show that our trainer would not be at - they ALWAYS find out - LOL!!

    what to do, what to do.......

    ETA - I don't think it would even occur to our trainer A) should the horse do the first years and B) who should the trainer find to do the ride if we felt we wanted it
    Yes, well... I do agree that the problem is working out the ruffled feathers thing with the trainer, but IMO, the bottom line is that your main concern needs to be making sure the horse (and the kid) get the right start they need in that division to build confidence and continue. And I'd say that means a couple of pro rides at least, and that only after the kid is schooling confidently at home over courses at that height.

    I really do think that you can give the current trainer an "out" by choosing some shows she is not going to, and asking for her help selecting someone else who might be able to assist. Not suggesting that you do it behind her back at all... just giving everyone a face-saving way to get the job done, which she might welcome in the circumstances.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2008
    Posts
    372

    Default

    Think about some other pros that your trainer either looks up to or has a close relationship with. Then think about your horse in particular and what makes him not the right match with your trainer- is he a little sensitive? Is he super dull or strong? Could you suggest "Hey maybe your friend Joe BNT would ride this horse really well since he's a big strong guy"? Or could you suggest that a really BNT ride the horse at a show to get him some attention from the judges?



  19. #19
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    Sep. 17, 2009
    Posts
    134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tex Mex View Post
    Think about some other pros that your trainer either looks up to or has a close relationship with. Then think about your horse in particular and what makes him not the right match with your trainer- is he a little sensitive? Is he super dull or strong? Could you suggest "Hey maybe your friend Joe BNT would ride this horse really well since he's a big strong guy"? Or could you suggest that a really BNT ride the horse at a show to get him some attention from the judges?
    Trainer rides him on the "jumper-y" side and he likes a nice soft hunter ride. Not strong or dull at all, maybe a little sensitive since when he doesn't have a rider with a light seat or soft contact he wants to go with his head in the air.

    Most of the trainer's "friends" are jumper riders or are not available in the winter as they ship to Florida at the end of November.

    I guess this will sort itself out......



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2006
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    822

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    You sound like an active involved owner/parent of owner and these ar emajor considerations that will set the horse up for a good confident career or a season with soem shakes. The sport of showing horses is one of the only situations where we pay for a service where we have to follow orders and not ruffle feathers. It never makes real sense to me. I always ride with trainers that I can be the final decision maker and that there is open communication. In the end it is my horse and I am responsible for getting/doing the best by my horse ....no one else will ever be as invested in my horse than me so I have to find the way to get what my horse needs (each one may have a different set of needs). If you have a trainer that makes this a messy thing then I think you need to look at that situation first. That said if your kid rides well enough then doing the 1st years herself gives both her and the horse the extra milage and confidence but I hear you about getting a few rides under a pro to set the tone. I have switched trainers when I am feeling that what I need is going to rock someone's boat but first I would get more direct with the trainer about who would be a good ride for a few trips on your horse. See what the reaction is going to be or if she is actually fairly open to this option. You just never know until you approach the issue. You might want to do that with some possible people in mind and know what other options you have if things do not go well. If you switch trainers you need to let them know your plans, goals and expectations. I always let my trainers know I am perhaps the client from hell because I do not just turn my life and horse over to anyone. This is a little easier for me becauase I do keep my horses at home and this puts me in a better position to be the decision maker....communication is key. Hope all works out well. Also I assume with it being this late in th eyear you are planning for the next show season so you do have some limited time to put the best plan for you into place.



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