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  1. #1
    TrotOn44 Guest

    Default Running Curb Through Martingale

    Hi everyone. I have a horse who is really resistant to his curb bit sometimes (he goes in a double bridle). I want to try running his curb rein through his martingale but have heard that it is not recommended. I've known trainers who have done it without problems, and I've never really heard of any problems with it. I am just looking for some feedback from people who have maybe done it or who recommend/don't recommend it. And he is not going in a running or german martingale. It is just the standard martingale, he goes in it fairly loose.



  2. #2
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    Default

    Noooooo. NOT recommended.
    Quote Originally Posted by HuntrJumpr
    No matter what level of showing you're doing, you are required to have pants on.



  3. #3
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    Ditto on Ambar, but I'll add my .02 anyway.

    If it is a standard martingale [by which I assume you mean a standing martingale], then I don't see how you can run it through the curb rein. Standards attach to the noseband.
    And I don't see how using a martingale on the curb rein would make your horse less resistant. Curb reins work laterally, and are NOT meant to be used with a martingale. You're either going to get yourself flipped over or confuse the crud out of your horse. Martingales are used to prevent the horse from putting his head up too high.

    Why are you riding in a double with a martingale in the first place?
    Rebel Without Cash!



  4. #4
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    Say what?


    What ARE you trying to do? If it's not a German or running martingale, what are you doing with the rein?

    And...er...what are you trying to accomplish?

    Most of the time, retraining in something milder works better then anchoring a curb rein to another piece of tack in an attempt to "make" the horse mind better.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  5. #5
    TrotOn44 Guest

    Default

    No, it is NOT a standing martingale haha.. and I have never ridden this horse in a martingale in his double bridle before. The martingale is just one of those really basic ones- leather that lies around the horse's neck with two metal rings, and attaches to the girth. Not a running, sort of like one but not. I've ridden horses before (under a trainer's direction) in a double bridle with both the snaffle and the curb rein through the martingale and I've never had a problem with it, ever.



  6. #6
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    Default

    I'm also curious as to how you are going to run the rein through the martingale if you are not using a running martingale.

    How is he resistant to the curb? Throwing his head? Bearing down or curling up from the pressure? If he is tossing his head, why? Sure a martingale will keep him from tossing his head, but it does not provide a solution to the root of throwing his head. If something is bothering him in his body that makes it difficult to yield to the curb, a martingale, draw reins, double twisted wire bradoon, is not going to make him better. Maybe he doesn't like the curb chain: have you tried a looser setting or even trying a rubber or leather curb strap?

    If he is curling up behind the bit, is he trying to avoid the pressure? Is he moving truly forward when you're working? That's a problem I run into when I warm up before jumping and my horse is in his rubber gag: if I'm too heavy with my hands or net getting him really forward, he just curls up to evade the leverage action of the bit (not a curb I know, but leverage none the less).

    My two cents is to figure out what is causing the resistance first, before trying the band-aid method of gadget-training. Been there, done that and still trying to fix the results of my "experimenting".
    Why do I work two jobs to support a horse I don't have time to ride?



  7. #7
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    Jun. 1, 2002
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    Default

    From the description of the martingale I'm going to assume you're riding a saddlebred? If so the desired response to the double bridle is very different then what Hunter/jumper and dressage people want. Running it through the martingale will help set his head but if you take it off to show you may find he enjoys his freedom. You might try changing the mouth of the curb to something more gentle.

    Your martingale probably looks like this
    http://www.sstack.com/shopping/produ...iProductID=546

    http://www.sstack.com/shopping/produ...iProductID=573



  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrotOn44 View Post
    No, it is NOT a standing martingale haha.. and I have never ridden this horse in a martingale in his double bridle before. The martingale is just one of those really basic ones- leather that lies around the horse's neck with two metal rings, and attaches to the girth. Not a running, sort of like one but not. I've ridden horses before (under a trainer's direction) in a double bridle with both the snaffle and the curb rein through the martingale and I've never had a problem with it, ever.
    Is it one of the ones where it looks like the forked part of a running martingale that goes to the girth but the rings are integrated into the neck strap? Just trying to figure out what you are describing...
    Why do I work two jobs to support a horse I don't have time to ride?



  9. #9
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    Both reins through the martingale?
    Okey dokey then.

    I'd like to know why you're riding in a double, if you feel the need to put your horse in a martingale while he's in the double. It sounds like you have a hole in your horse's training and your riding.

    Could you post a picture of your setup?
    ETA: btw, what discipline do you ride?
    Rebel Without Cash!



  10. #10
    TrotOn44 Guest

    Default

    Yes, that is it- I'm pretty sure they're referred to as training martingales.

    This horse is just very inconsistent in his full bridle, a lot of the time the root of his problem is him not sitting down and using his hind end, and in those cases I get him to power from behind to come into the bridle- not put a martinale on him or something. And I have tried loosening the curb chain (though he already goes with it extremely loose, and it's wrapped in latex), and I've tried tightening it. Changing the curb chain does not do much of anything for him, whether it be looser or tighter. Sometimes he just pushes against it when you try to use your curb rein. A lot of the time I'll try to get him to flex in by using just my snaffle because at least that he doesn't push against. But doing that makes the whole thing 100X harder for me. I'd like to be able to have even rein pressure.



  11. #11
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    Default

    What is the mouth part of his curb? You might try something smoother and thicker since it sounds like he's sensitive. You can also try shorter shanks.



  12. #12
    TrotOn44 Guest

    Default

    His curb bit is totally smooth and it's thick- and also wrapped. Let's see, we've tried shorter shanks, a pelham, a snaffle, a corkscrew, etc etc. This horse doesn't do anything bad, he doesn't throw tantrums, throw his head, break, fight, nothing. He's just an inch or two away from perfect all the time, and he'll hit it sometimes but he's never consistent. You have to be working this horse's face and working your legs every second with this horse to get him to do it right. If I could find something that he'd just like, and was able to sit in comfortably, and get light in- he'd be amazing.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrotOn44 View Post
    No, it is NOT a standing martingale haha.. and I have never ridden this horse in a martingale in his double bridle before. The martingale is just one of those really basic ones- leather that lies around the horse's neck with two metal rings, and attaches to the girth. Not a running, sort of like one but not. I've ridden horses before (under a trainer's direction) in a double bridle with both the snaffle and the curb rein through the martingale and I've never had a problem with it, ever.
    Oh,Oh,Oh, I got it...Arab? Morgan or ASB?

    It's a breast plate kind of thing, just goes around the neck at the base and hooks to the girth underneath between the forelegs with a ring set on each side. You run a rein thru and it and then up to your hands, acts as a sort of head setter gizmo. Kind of like draw reins without the extra rein.

    Is that it?

    If so....not something we use in Dressage or the other Sport Horse disciplines discussed on here. For one thing, we do not "set" heads. For another, there is no relief with this gadget, always pressure. And you can't steer with both reins run thru the breast collar deal.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  14. #14
    TrotOn44 Guest

    Default

    Yes, that is the martingale I'm talking about. you can steer with both reins through it, i've done it- they don't interfere with much.



  15. #15
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYD42...eature=related

    I can't find any thing with a double in it right now, but here is a video of a saddlebred working in a training martingale. This is a snaffle horse right now but in the future someone would run the curb through the martingale to set the head more.

    To the OP, the trouble is if you take the martingale off in a class you might find he goes overboard with flinging his head around. Really work on making sure your hands stay still and even and see if that helps.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    If so....not something we use in Dressage or the other Sport Horse disciplines discussed on here. For one thing, we do not "set" heads. For another, there is no relief with this gadget, always pressure. And you can't steer with both reins run thru the breast collar deal.
    Ah. Here I was thinking the OP rides dressage, and as it turns out, I'm totally off base
    Rebel Without Cash!



  17. #17
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    If he softens when you flex him with the snaffle, then use that. It may be harder for you, but if he softens to that why don't you use it? I've seen plenty of people ride in a double that barely touch the curb rein because the horse goes better off the snaffle rein.

    If he's not using his hind end effectively, what exercises are you using to strengthen it so he can engage more consistently? I have been working with my event horse (older TB) on this because he would happily just rush along on his forehand if I let him. We've been doing a lot of transitions and flatting in a hilly field so he really has to use himself to develop that hind-end strength. I know it's not fair for me to ask him to really use his hind end and collect when he's not strong enough to do it. If I do push him too hard, he will resist, spectacularly sometimes. It's tempting to go to draw reins or something, it would make it easier for me but not really solve the problem.

    ETA: totally missed the saddle-seat part. Ah.
    Why do I work two jobs to support a horse I don't have time to ride?



  18. #18
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    May. 14, 2009
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    Sorry can't locate the post where you say;
    What he is.
    How old he is.
    What discipline he is.
    Those would be extremely helpful.

    No matter what the answers are to the above. He should be able to be ridden in a very mild snaffle, if he can't there is a hole in his basic training.
    Until you find and fix that, you will always have issues.
    Also, No one likes to here this, but are you sure that the inconsistancy isn't you. If you don't have a following hand, he won't have a soft mouth.



  19. #19
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    Aug. 25, 1999
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    Been around enough saddle seat arabs to know that you don't use the training martingale with anything but a snaffle.

    I also know that some ss horses are naturally a little extra wacky in a double bridle...

    This bb does have *some* saddleseat people, but maybe this is a question best suitd for another board. Or a TRAINER. please tell me you have a trainer.

    Oh, and you can steer with the training martingale. Or there would be alot of wrecks at ss places....



  20. #20
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    Jan. 12, 2007
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    My Sister's had saddlebreds and rode SS. My older Sister had a horse that she rode the just curb rein through the running martingale. It seemed to fix his "nose out" problem. He was just a hair off vertical - it drove her NUTS! I know she went through tons of bit changes as well. - of course that was the 1960's - she also rode him in a mule bit(bike chain). Ah SS! My younger Sister never had that problem - her horse just flipped over backwards. That was "fixed" long enough to sell the mare with a Flying W. She then joined me at the AQHA shows - less "dangerous" lol! Saddlebreds are still a HUGE thrill to ride - WOW! Definitely the "E" ticket!
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"



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