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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2007
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    180

    Default Registry Ethics Poll

    Please give me your feedback

    Should a Registry consider a stallions owners decission to resend a stallion report and Breeders Certificates after it has have been submitted and breeders cert. sent ... over a year...because they have decided the foals are not worthy of registry for one reason or another. What would you do if you couldnt register your foal for this reason??
    What about the stallions owner..should future breeders be forwarned??
    This registry will be Hidden untill all issues have been decided good or bad.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
    Location
    Mirabel, QC
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    2,656

    Default

    I am sorry, could you clarify?
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales - Currently: Eventing & Derby prospects
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2009
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    748

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EquusMagnificus View Post
    I am sorry, could you clarify?
    do you mean that the stallion owner is rescinding? that they don't want the foal registered?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
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    Brownsburg, VA
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    Default

    I certainly heard of that happening before - the SO doesn't want papers issued for a foal. There was money owed the stallion owner by the mareowner.
    "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 4, 2007
    Location
    Crossville, TN
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    1,181

    Default

    If the stallion owner did not feel that the mare was up to par at the time she was bred then the SO should not have allowed the mare to be bred. A year later the mare owner has a foal on the ground and has spent considerable money on this foal. I feel it would be highly unethical of the stallion owner to take this stance. Were I am mare owner in that situation I would keep it to myself, resolve it legally and then I might consider making it public knowledge.

    As far as the registry I would be equally displeased with them if all of the paperwork was properly done and appropriate fees had all been paid. If evertything was properly done for the breeding I think it would be very unfair to the MO for the SO and registry to after the fact decide to refuse registry. That does not make sense to me.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 28, 2003
    Location
    NOVA
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    925

    Default

    In other words: "I, stallion owner, will allow you, mare owner, to register your foal AFTER I deem that the foal is of sufficient quality."

    No way. If the stallion owner wants to control quality, he/she should do so before the mare is bred not after the foal is on the ground.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 1999
    Posts
    14,488

    Default

    I guess if there were fees due to the stallion owner, I would be fine with holding the papers, but if it is a matter of the SO not liking the quality of the foal, then that should be between the SO and their surgical veterinarian, IMO.

    If the foal owner has met all the criteria, the foal should be registrable.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2003
    Location
    Eastern Pacific coast
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    3,745

    Default

    If the registry is going to honor the stallion owner's decision to rescind the paperwork on a foal (regardless of why) and thus not register the foal, then the registry needs to make sure it's in writing in their handbook that they reserve the right to do so.
    -Amor vincit omnia-



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2003
    Location
    Charles Town, WV
    Posts
    6,637

    Default

    I really have no idea what the OP said and I think everyone is guessing at what s/he could mean.
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
    Now apparently completely invisible!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, VA
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    Default

    Tiki, I'm betting there is a whole lot more to the story than meets the eye.

    I've already stated I can think of one way this would happen. I can think of a couple more too. There is NO WAY I'd pass judgement on a registry or the stallion owner without knowing the entire story.

    I will note that registry papers are the last line of defense (and pretty much the only) for a SO.

    And..... it could be the SO is a total control freak jackass. But I'm not hopping on the registry/SO crucifixion bandwagon without knowing everything.
    "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2004
    Posts
    376

    Default

    Agree that it was confusingly worded and rather unclear.

    But what it sounds like the OP meant, was that the SO filed their breeding report with their registry, listing all the mares that were bred, as most registries require. And then the registry issued "Breeders Certificates" which is what the SO gives the MO as proof that they paid their stud fee and they send in to register their foal. And then long after these events took place, the SO decides to tell the registry that the initial report was in error and some of the mares should be left off. And SO files a new breeding report with not all the names on there. So that the MOs whose mares were left off now cannot register their foals.

    If that is what the OP meant, my opinion would be: 1. Any SO that would do such a thing is a lying, cheating, skunk and should be outed immediately so that no one will ever do business with them again. 2. Any registry that would allow a revised breeding report to be filed which *leaves off* mares that were previously reported (as opposed to, say, a corrected report *adding* a mare that was inadvertently forgotten) should be boycotted forevermore by every breeder everywhere, and should also be outed immediately.

    I really hope that is not what happened. That's what it sounded like, but it's hard to imagine any registry going along with such a thing, honestly.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,845

    Default

    I agree the OP is confusing. If the mare owner owes the SO money - I would defend blocking the Registry providing papers for the foal. As far as trying to stop papers because the foal wasn't up to par - no.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2005
    Posts
    711

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ise@ssl View Post
    I agree the OP is confusing. If the mare owner owes the SO money - I would defend blocking the Registry providing papers for the foal. As far as trying to stop papers because the foal wasn't up to par - no.
    Don't registries send the stallion owner the breeding certificates for the foals ?
    If a mare owner has not paid stud fees, etc. the stallion owner can simply not provide the certificate, I don't see why there would be any need to file a different report.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    NY
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    Default

    Off the top of my head I can think of three reasonable reasons:
    1. Mare owner owe's money (or in someway does not honor a written contract regarding the breeding)

    2. Stallion's sperm (A.I.) illegal split and unauthorized breeding done (mare was legit, but second mare on farm breed from split).

    3. Foal shows genetic problem, SO will no longer breed and doesnt want any more breedings. Or SO feels foal should have been pts because of genetic problem with mare, but Mare Owner didn't do so or plans to use foal (with inheritable genetic problem) in future breeding program .

    So, for me, it would depend on the reason for the rescinding.

    Does this registry require DNA samples?
    Last edited by Chall; Sep. 5, 2009 at 01:36 PM.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2007
    Posts
    180

    Default

    BLUE MOON HAS IT CORRECT
    The stallion was stood at a stallion station and thats where the mares were BRED
    Stallion owner is owed no money for any of these breeding contracts ...they were all payed in full (with cleared checks). All contracts were legal and followed and the registry isnt giving mare owners any reasoning for why SO is doing this. This was done to ALL mare owners of that year. All fees are paid etc. to the registry also.
    I understand if stud fees were owed but there not and how can SO do it a year later?? If there was an issue then the SO should never of issued breeders cert. and sent in the report. its not fair to us mare owners

    SO refuses to answer calls

    There were only 3 mares bred(all different MO) to this stallion that year all in the general area of the stallion and None of us are able to get our papers

    AND as far as the registry goes they have been so kind to of let us spend our money at their shows and aquire points on these babies with NO mention that it means nothing in the long run



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2007
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Oh and NO the registry does not send the breeders cert. They are Downloaded off the registries web site by the SO then signed and sent out to The MO and from I can see on the registries web site it specifically tells SO NOT to send the BC untill ALL stud fees are paid so I would assume that when SO sign And sends they are stating all fees are paid
    And NO DNA on foals is not done unless they are purebreds in which in this case 1 is and was DNA typed

    I would also like to add that we all show together(MO) and all of these foals have been Either champion or reserve in their divisions at EVERY show so quality is something SO should be THRILLED with



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 1999
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    14,488

    Default

    Wow! I just can't imagine this happening.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2006
    Location
    Colorado
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    2,189

    Default

    Is it possible that the SO has found out something about the stallion, a genetic problem say, that means that the offspring should never be allowed to enter the gene pool? If it was a rare-ish breed, it would be possible that the registry agrees with the SO, but no one wants to make anything public?



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 1999
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    14,488

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Molly Malone View Post
    Is it possible that the SO has found out something about the stallion, a genetic problem say, that means that the offspring should never be allowed to enter the gene pool? If it was a rare-ish breed, it would be possible that the registry agrees with the SO, but no one wants to make anything public?
    IMO, if that would be the case, the MO's have a large investment, and have the right to know.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
    Location
    Sunshine State
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    2,216

    Default

    Is the stallion not available for breeding any more at all or was it just a single year that they rescinded all of the breeding contracts?

    I would send a certified letter to the SO or whomever you paid the stud fee to requesting explanation in a predetermined time frame (14 days is good). If you don't get any answer, get an attorney. Do you still have your breeding contract? It sounds like they have not upheld their end of the contract and are in breech.

    If you contract was with the breeding station and not the SO, then your correspondence should be with the breeding station. They will have legal recourse to go after the SO but you may not if the SO never entered a contract with you.

    Get your paperwork together and get an attorney.



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