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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 10, 2009
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    Default Go for the long spot or hold to the deep?

    Now I know that it depends on the horse, depends on the situation, depends on what you intend to do after that jump, etc. But I was curious about opinions on this subject. Ideally I'll take the perfect spot to every jump, ha I wish I was that good to find it every time! I have discussed this with my trainer but I just wanted to hear more on the subject. Thanks!

    Oxer--would you rather hold for the deep or roll to the long spot?
    Vertical--same question

    Do you ride an oxer differently than a vertical?

    *I ask this question with 3'6" jumper fences in mind with a true vertical (no brush or boxes out front) and a pretty good spread to the oxer. What do you think is the better spot to keep the rails up?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2005
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    3,504

    Default

    You're always better off with a deep spot than a long one. Especially with oxers. Long spots are dangerous, and become more so the higher (and wider) the fences get.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris



  3. #3
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    Oct. 25, 2005
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    Default

    Deep spot. Especially on the more adjustable horses. I always find it better to wait.



  4. #4
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    Jan. 27, 2008
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    New Jersey
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    598

    Default

    Deep spot but for some reason only find the long one.......



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 31, 2000
    Location
    Idaho
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    971

    Default

    I am always better off w the deep spot. My horse jumps better from this spot. A lot of horses tend to get flat from the long spot, while the deep one allows them to curl up & over.

    ETA, honestly, I don't ride an oxer and a vertical much differently, my horse is scopey and can take care of it - but maybe I'll hold him off of the vertical just a bit more.



  6. #6
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    Aug. 15, 2008
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    4,636

    Default

    Despite my screen name, I'll take the deep spot please.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
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    Default

    Despite terrible photographic evidence to the contrary (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/27964...69198992GVJmsP), I prefer to hold for the deep spot.
    Here today, gone tomorrow...



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2008
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    Default

    Always hold for the deep. Better deep with impulsion then long and weak.

    In terms of oxers and verticals...I'm a jumper rider so I always looks for that deep, right to the base spot at verticals and a nice ride to the base at oxers as well but not as close as verticals unless there is some reason to (ie: tight turn on landing, very short combination or whatever).

    I remember riding with GM when I was just making the transition to jumpers and having to circle continuously over a vertical while he kept telling me to get deeper and deeper. I was at the point where it felt like a chip and he wanted me to add ANOTHER stride! Took me a while to get the hang of how to correctly ride that distance. Thank god I was lucky enough to move up on a saint of a packer with scope to spare.



  9. #9
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    Sep. 19, 2008
    Posts
    99

    Default

    Deep Spot! During lessons my trainer would have me practice jumping from the deep spots. My horse preferred deep spots as well! I always felt that i would be much safer to hold to the deep than to try and jump a large fence from a long spot.



  10. #10
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    Jun. 10, 2009
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    Thanks, I have always been taught that the deep spot is the safe bet. In a recent lesson trainer encouraged me to hold him extra deep to the verticals with a more "up" canter and, not necessarily take a long spot to oxers, but have a more open, rolling step to them. A super long spot to an oxer I might worry about clearing the back rail but I think she just wanted more power and a confident step to the big oxer since horse is quite green. We're still figuring each other out--he used to be want to leave long but now he really listens to me to tell him when to leave. Which means I better have an answer for him!

    Love your pic frenchfrytheeqhorse so I'll add one...

    I'm not talking mega long like this...
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1293060230
    Don't worry
    (Pic above is my friend in 3'6" jumpers on a mare with...attitude.)

    Quote Originally Posted by WorthTheWait95 View Post
    Always hold for the deep. Better deep with impulsion then long and weak.

    In terms of oxers and verticals...I'm a jumper rider so I always looks for that deep, right to the base spot at verticals and a nice ride to the base at oxers as well but not as close as verticals unless there is some reason to (ie: tight turn on landing, very short combination or whatever).
    I think this is what the trainer was going for, thanks.



  11. #11
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    Dec. 28, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipChange View Post
    I'm not talking mega long like this...
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1293060230
    Don't worry
    (Pic above is my friend in 3'6" jumpers on a mare with...attitude.)


    Holy crap! It looks like they made it from the comments below the pic but good lord!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2008
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    1,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipChange View Post
    Thanks, I have always been taught that the deep spot is the safe bet. In a recent lesson trainer encouraged me to hold him extra deep to the verticals with a more "up" canter and, not necessarily take a long spot to oxers, but have a more open, rolling step to them. A super long spot to an oxer I might worry about clearing the back rail but I think she just wanted more power and a confident step to the big oxer since horse is quite green. We're still figuring each other out--he used to be want to leave long but now he really listens to me to tell him when to leave. Which means I better have an answer for him!

    Love your pic frenchfrytheeqhorse so I'll add one...

    I'm not talking mega long like this...
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1293060230
    Don't worry
    (Pic above is my friend in 3'6" jumpers on a mare with...attitude.)



    I think this is what the trainer was going for, thanks.

    Oh my goodness! There is easily room for another full stride in that picture!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    May. 13, 2009
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    65

    Default

    It sounds like your trainer wants you to ride him forward to the deep spot to the oxers. You can get to a deep spot in different ways. Riding forward with power to the deep will help teach him to jump off his back end and get his front legs out of the way better. Riding him backwards and weak to the deep could land you on the back rail. I've done it both ways, so I hope this helps!



  14. #14
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    Jun. 7, 2006
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    9,468

    Default

    Holy sweet shizzle, y'all left from last week!



  15. #15
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    Aug. 20, 2004
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    North East
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    Default

    Deep, deep and deep. A long distance to an oxer is especially dangerous.



  16. #16
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    Jul. 9, 2008
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    Default

    Wow, that second picture is insane!



  17. #17
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    Jun. 10, 2009
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    Default

    Thanks for the feedback. The picture is not of me or my horse. The horse had serious game and the kid was brave. Obviously there were some training issues going on, she did manage to clear it but I would not try to replicate that! Lucky for me my horse has a great sense of humor and enough scope to take care of me, but I don't think HE ever takes off quite THAT long.



  18. #18
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    Jan. 2, 2007
    Location
    Alpharetta
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    Default

    Wow that is quite a photo!

    I cringe when I hear "hold" to the deep one, I hope you mean and are thinking "wait" for the deep one.

    When you hold your horse you are restricting the use of his front end (head and neck) and are loosing his ability to carry his hind end forward underneath him.

    If you want to successfully ask him to shorten his stride and wait with you for the deep one, then you have to close your hands and release with the rhythm of the canter stride.

    I'm sure guys already know this.



  19. #19
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    Jun. 10, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit Springs Farm View Post
    Wow that is quite a photo!

    I cringe when I hear "hold" to the deep one, I hope you mean and are thinking "wait" for the deep one.

    When you hold your horse you are restricting the use of his front end (head and neck) and are loosing his ability to carry his hind end forward underneath him.

    If you want to successfully ask him to shorten his stride and wait with you for the deep one, then you have to close your hands and release with the rhythm of the canter stride.

    I'm sure guys already know this.
    Thank you for this. This wording and strategy is certainly more correct. Perhaps this explains the difference between our weak deep spots and our strong, smooth deep spots. When I say hold I don't mean just with my hand, he is quite responsive to shortening cues from my seat and body as well. However this responsiveness is a relatively recent development and I'm still getting a feel for how much is too much/not enough and how much is perfect. The concept you suggest is certainly not something new but obviously I haven't been actively thinking about it. I'm young (19) and a sophomore in college so I like to be reminded about good ideas like this frequently, so thanks!

    One eventing clinician I rode with made anyone who made a mistake to stop and say, "I'm a teenager and I forgot to think." I'm pretty sure even adults were made to say this! But I definitely confess that I'm still a teenager and I still forget to think.



  20. #20
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    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    Default

    I got a pretty good trainer and big "R" judge. Her mantra in lessons when no distance is there or the rider needs a map to find one is "the chip is your friend. The chip is your friend". As opposed to the old "when in doubt, leave it out".

    To the point of working with the advanced kids on very low jumps over and over to find that deep spot and get the horse willing to add one in there, chip, off a bad spot. With the jumps in the dreaded circle of death. That one can get ugly.

    Of course, you get that by managing the canter properly. That's the point. Strong position and stride management on a horse willing to listen which, in the Jumpers, is tough. Not so easy in the Hunters either.

    Even in the Hunters there is a difference between leaving a gap and leaving long and you do not want long. So you school to where they are willing to wait and you are willing to wait and then you can soften when you do see that gap.

    I think the answewr to leaving long or short when you miss is answered for anybody who has ever flipped one. Or seen a bad one.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



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