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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2008
    Location
    Delhi, NY
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    12

    Default frustrated

    i am going to sound like an old curmudgeon, but I was going to enter the Spring Valley Hounds Horse show in NJ. This is their 80th year, and I wanted to support them. i was a junior waaay back in the 70s, and showed there. i really only hunt now, no shwing to speak of, and there are no recognized shows near where I live in central NY. After two non member fee for the USEf and USHJA, the grounds fee and the drug fee, it was $95 before I even enter a class.
    So, I am not showing. Too expensive. This is not Spring Valley's fault, but I have to say, I miss the days when a one day show was affordable. I think the USEF and the USHJA have done a huge disservice the the horse show communtiy by pushing the one day show almost into extinction. We rode in shows every weekend. Now our young riders actually get less ring time because they are forced to go to the big shows. No wonder they need at Horsemaster's Clinic! They don't do anything themselves!
    I was recently in Lexington, an saw the beautiful offices of the USEF and the USHJA offices were under construction. I think I see where the money is going....

    Any thought?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 6, 2009
    Posts
    36

    Default

    I agree 100%. Why aren't there more affordable one day A shows?
    Last edited by WWYD?; Aug. 28, 2009 at 12:41 PM.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 12, 2002
    Location
    Former Long Islander now in the middle of the Great Lakes
    Posts
    1,644

    Default

    Because showing horses is no longer a sport , it is a business which has nothing to do with being affordable to the masses. The target market averages a $150,000.00 in disposable income per year of which aproximately $5,000.00 per year goes toward the up keep of the horse, The rest goes towards salaries for all the horse show support which were it not for "them" the average horseshow competitor would have no idea what to do with all their disposable income. They are doing you a favor afterall so shut up and bend over.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2008
    Location
    Northern NJ
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Ugh I'm going to that show!! Due to my work schedule my trainer has had a hard time finding shows I can go to with the classes I need. It was supposed to be fun exposure for the green bean. I didn't realize it was going to be so pricey. With all those fees, plus the four classes, and can't forget the shipper...EEEK! Horse needs to get out there because he needs to be gone, but if he didn't we would be sitting this one out!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2000
    Posts
    1,729

    Default

    i think all the fees to show at a one day show is rediculous! i still wonder why USHJA had to be created? all its creating is more fees. now you have to register any horse that shows once and pay a $30 fee. i think this is money for those nice offices you are talking about.
    if you dont care how high your jumping, since you havent shown in years. you may be eligible for the opportunity classes. those are a beginner hunter type class and you dont have to pay non member fees. just a drug fee. my trainer worked with the USEF to create these because she said all those fees were discouraging beginner types from entering her shows (and other c rated shows) because they were too expensive.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    3,389

    Default

    I am starting to see more local shows that only charge per-class and a $10 or $20 schooling fee, and classes are usually about $20 each. I go to enough rated shows a year that it makes more sense to just pay for usef fees and get over it, but it is VERY expensive in comparison to these pay-by-class shows. Now, i'm not old enough to really remember a time where usef didnt 'take over' (im only 17 and been riding 6 yrs) but I think it's a little unfair to say that ALL juniors must NEED master clinicians because we can't do anything ourselves and we can all afford to go to the A's every weekend believe me, i would LOVE it if i had the money to go to a few nice clinics a year (which does not mean you're a bad rider, it means you're a rider that's taking all the steps you can to be the best you can be in riding) and go to all the A's. I go to about three or four A shows a year if I'm lucky. I go to some C's, a B or two, and the rest is little schooling shows that are abundantly cheaper. that being said, i pay for ALL of my shows as well as part of my horsey bill. I work my bum off at the barn as a working student along with plenty of other kids in the same boat. There are plenty who are less fortunate than I and can't afford a lesson, let alone a horse or a show. Not all young riders are 'forced' to go to all the big a's. And, believe me, plenty of us DON'T have or need grooms. I know it's tempting to blame someone when you're feeling bitter, but really? Don't take it out on kids. You're an adult clearly, so act like one

    Anyway, there are a number of 'opportunity' classes at that show as well as all the other usef shows now that do not require you to be a usef member and will not charge a non-member fee. You may want to look into this if you don't mind jumping under 3'. Even if you're normally a 4'er, it might be worth your time just to have fun at an old horse show.

    Andd, finally, that all being said, I've never exactly understood the creation of the USHJA, but from what I can see all the 30 $ non member fees go towards their fancy schmancy new office and 'museum' thing in KY.. but that's just kinda how life works, unfortunately. They're not full of bad ideas though. They did start back the international hunter derby. they do their zone awards by C and B shows only, so the kids who can't go to the A's but still do small C/B shows have a chance at a big ribbon for their wall. IRRC, they also have some sort of emergency relief fund relating to horse injuries and that sort of thing, where they will give you the money in need of an emergency (..so i've heard. don't quote me on it !)
    (|--Sarah--|)

    Blitz <3 & Leap of Faith <3



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2004
    Location
    Bluffton, SC
    Posts
    3,138

    Default

    I'm right there with you. I have been working with a gelding for 2 years now, and haven't been to a show in over 6 years. He is sound and going well, and as a treat to reward myself for all the hard work I've put in to him, I wanted to hit one show and jump around the 2'6", just for fun.

    Well just for the non-member fees and a stall, it was going to cost me over 200. I don't have that kind of money. That's before I haul him up there, enter any classes, buy bedding, etc.

    To me, it's not worth my paying the annual member fee on the off chance I hit 1 show a year. But then people like us that only rarely want to go show get slapped in the face.

    I could see if I wanted to enter one of the rated, highly competitive divisions where people are chasing points, but I want to enter a 2'3"-2'6" "special hunter" division, for horses not ready for a rated division. I did call and ask if non-member fees were still required and was told given a dumb "well, not if you are a member..."

    So, no horse show for us. I miss the days of a casual, inexpensive schooling show, for the casual shower or beginners. It's really sad. Any of the little schooling shows around me are run like rodeos and are absolute chaos.
    Strong promoter of READING the entire post before responding.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 15, 2008
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    231

    Default

    $5,000.00 per year goes toward the up keep of the horse
    Now, I am by no means a huge spender OR a huge earner - I ship in for lessons and show only a few times a year, do all my own grooming, etc - but how the heck do you get away with spending only 5K a year? My board - inexpensive by many people's standards - adds up to $4800 a year alone. Add in lessons and we're at $8400. Add in four three-day shows at $400 each and we're at $10,000! And I haven't even gone shopping yet. [EDIT: Add in shoes and that's another $1600 a year. Wow, now I am nauseous. That is why I try not to add this up... We still haven't talked shots, vet bills, teeth floating, wormer, fly spray, liniment... Ug.]

    But I agree the member fees / non-member fees are a big expense. I think it has less to do with their wanting to get rich off of our entries and more to do with the caliber of service and amenities people expect nowadays. Online point tallies, fancy websites, etc, all cost money and LOTS of it. I know because this is how my husband earns money so I can do the stuff mentioned above! So... as much as I wish it were cheaper, it's what I like to do and it costs what it costs.
    Last edited by GGsuperpony; Aug. 28, 2009 at 03:24 PM.
    Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight, / And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way, / Do not go gentle into that good night. -- Dylan Thomas



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 10, 2009
    Posts
    1,683

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKES MCS View Post
    aproximately $5,000.00 per year goes toward the up keep of the horse

    Quote Originally Posted by GGsuperpony View Post
    Now, I am by no means a huge spender OR a huge earner - I ship in for lessons and show only a few times a year, do all my own grooming, etc - but how the heck do you get away with spending only 5K a year? My board - inexpensive by many people's standards - adds up to $4800 a year alone. Add in lessons and we're at $8400. Add in four three-day shows at $400 each and we're at $10,000! And I haven't even gone shopping yet. [EDIT: Add in shoes and that's another $1600 a year. Wow, now I am nauseous. That is why I try not to add this up... We still haven't talked shots, vet bills, teeth floating, wormer, fly spray, liniment... Ug.]

    But I agree the member fees / non-member fees are a big expense. I think it has less to do with their wanting to get rich off of our entries and more to do with the caliber of service and amenities people expect nowadays. Online point tallies, fancy websites, etc, all cost money and LOTS of it. I know because this is how my husband earns money so I can do the stuff mentioned above! So... as much as I wish it were cheaper, it's what I like to do and it costs what it costs.
    I agree, how do you keep it to 5k? My bill is probably close to $1,000 a month



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 22, 2008
    Posts
    804

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GGsuperpony View Post
    Now, I am by no means a huge spender OR a huge earner - I ship in for lessons and show only a few times a year, do all my own grooming, etc - but how the heck do you get away with spending only 5K a year?
    Hyperbole

    Out here in CT the most basic of board runs about $400/month. That's pretty much your $5k right there, if you don't factor in grain, shoes, or vet bills.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2008
    Location
    Delhi, NY
    Posts
    12

    Default

    [yrs but I think it's a little unfair to say that ALL juniors must NEED master clinicians because we can't do anything ourselves and we can all afford to go to the A's every weekend believe me, i would LOVE it if i had the money to go to a few nice clinics a year (which does not mean you're a bad rider, it means you're a rider that's taking all the steps you can to be the best you can be in riding) and go to all the A's. that being said, i pay for ALL of my shows as well as part of my horsey bill. I work my bum off at the barn as a working student along with plenty of other kids in the same boat. I know it's tempting to blame someone when you're feeling bitter, but really? Don't take it out on kids. You're an adult clearly, so act like one

    Sarah, you are the junior rider we all want to see! I wasn't slamming all juniors, believe me, I was just like you. I was talking about the privileged A circuit kids who get to ride with George Morris and Beezie Madden and don't know how to tell if a horse is colicking or how to clean their own tack. You clearly are a horsewoman, not just a rider. I run the 4-H horse program in my county, and I see kids who work hard just to ride in a county fair show. So my apologies to you. You are the type of young rider that I wish was the norm, not the exception. Good luck to you!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2009
    Location
    Rootown!
    Posts
    2,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moserorr View Post

    Sarah, you are the junior rider we all want to see! I wasn't slamming all juniors, believe me, I was just like you. I was talking about the privileged A circuit kids who get to ride with George Morris and Beezie Madden and don't know how to tell if a horse is colicking or how to clean their own tack. You clearly are a horsewoman, not just a rider. I run the 4-H horse program in my county, and I see kids who work hard just to ride in a county fair show. So my apologies to you. You are the type of young rider that I wish was the norm, not the exception. Good luck to you!
    Something tells me George Morris would not be very happy if his students could not tell a horse was colicking. I don't think he would put up with it as a matter of fact since he's the one who's always talking about the horsemanship side of things.

    Also, just because students ride with BNT doesn't mean they don't know anything. Some of those big eq riders go on to be professionals in the horse world where they most certainly need to know about horsemanship.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2008
    Location
    Delhi, NY
    Posts
    12

    Default

    [QUOTE=dghunter;4337800]Something tells me George Morris would not be very happy if his students could not tell a horse was colicking. I don't think he would put up with it as a matter of fact since he's the one who's always talking about the horsemanship side of things.

    Which is exactly why he began the horsmastership program in FL...because they don't know....



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 1, 2008
    Posts
    4,862

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKES MCS View Post
    The target market averages a $150,000.00 in disposable income per year of which aproximately $5,000.00 per year goes toward the up keep of the horse,
    $5K a year???? I'm living on a different planet. I spend a whole lot more than that per year per horse.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2009
    Location
    Rootown!
    Posts
    2,108

    Default

    [QUOTE=moserorr;4337838

    Which is exactly why he began the horsmastership program in FL...because they don't know....[/QUOTE]

    Yes but I was under the impression that you were talking about who train with people like GM or Beezie as their main trainer. And from what I understand from reading about the horsemanship program, the kids seem to work really hard and do not have any help in doing things like cleaning stalls and they still do a great job. This means that somebody taught them correctly. I've never actually been able to go watch any of it but from the articles printed about it, the kids seem to know what they're doing for the most part.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2009
    Posts
    1,419

    Default

    As a kid we started out a LOCAL shows, nice shows with cool fences and nice footing, I plan to do the same with my daughters. Local one day shows without huge fees and no hidden ( shavings, stalls ect) costs. DD will show at Quentin in a few weeks ( great venue) at a local tack shop sponsored show and it will cost me about $50 ( plus gas for the truck so maybe another $35) that is less than most people pay for a lesson. I guess I miss the point when people talk about taking "green beans" to A rated shows, why? when they can use the same venues on "off" weekends for so much less money? I won't be spending A money until I am sure we can compete at the A level.
    Some of the local shows even have GREAT judges so while you might not be earning points you are still in very good company!
    Kim
    If you are lucky enough to ride, you are lucky enough.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar. 5, 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    Spring Valley is as local as it gets for us.

    The prixe list actually have a couple of "opportunity divisions" that doesn't require membership.
    Beginner rider, beginner hunter and the plesure div I believe. I think that's a very nice touch. If you want to jump over 2ft or get points you have to spend a little more though.

    I for one can't wait to see the sidesaddle over fences. I hope they created the sidesaddle division with some particular riders in mind and it actually fills.
    Timothy, stop lurking



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2009
    Posts
    1,419

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    Quote Originally Posted by DancingQueen View Post
    Spring Valley is as local as it gets for us.

    The prixe list actually have a couple of "opportunity divisions" that doesn't require membership.
    Beginner rider, beginner hunter and the plesure div I believe. I think that's a very nice touch. If you want to jump over 2ft or get points you have to spend a little more though.

    I for one can't wait to see the sidesaddle over fences. I hope they created the sidesaddle division with some particular riders in mind and it actually fills.
    Since I have grown up and only every ridden in Zone 2 I tend to forget how lucky we are, we can find a local or rated show within a few miles ( no more than and hour) every weekend and most week days in the summer LOL! My bad for thinking everyone has this advantage! Hope you find nice places to ride that are not as expensive!!!
    Kim
    If you are lucky enough to ride, you are lucky enough.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov. 3, 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    205

    Default

    DD will show at Quentin in a few weeks ( great venue) at a local tack shop sponsored show
    I know which show you're talking about! We must be from the same general area.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2009
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    1,419

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBobRadar View Post
    I know which show you're talking about! We must be from the same general area.
    I love that we can use NICE venues and still pay reasonable prices LOL~ and you can get a stall if you want one ( not sure why you need one for only a day but it is a nice perk) we are lucky!
    Kim
    If you are lucky enough to ride, you are lucky enough.



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