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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2008
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    4,090

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    Equibrit, the criteria you listed just proves her as a 1099, according to what I have been able to glean from her posts.

    She is not told how or when to do such tasks. Morning feeding is just sometime in the morning. She can clean stalls in the morning or the evening and if she wants to pick every pile up by hand, she can. Evening feedings are sometime in the evening, again, no specific time.

    She is paid a flat fee per week, regardless of if it takes one hour per day or ten.

    There is also no written contract.

    EDIT: Just saw your post and I'm glad she's going to work with you. I was in a similar situation where I was moving my horses into a place and before talking to them, they put a sign up saying 'training and lessons' and told me I was training and lessons! No discussion, no contract, no nothing! Well, I started teaching lessons there under one set of rules and they started changing them. Next thing I know they are having a discussion with me about some trainer that would pay them $10/person/hour for use of the ring and they 'didn't need me' - wait....who said I even wanted what they started out advertising I would do! Then I broke my ankle and got a call a few days later saying they were giving up their lease on the place and in the next month, 'my horses could stay, but no one would be there to watch them'....yeah, and I would be a squatter! So I had to find someplace to keep my horses suddenly....gah! So glad I got out of that, even if it was while I couldn't work at the time. I was fresh out of college, trying to make a living training horses and suddenly couldn't work and still living with my parents. I was getting ready to move out when I broke my ankle and the barn shut down - not so fun and not so fun to HAVE to be dependent on my parents...



  2. #22
    tattooedrdr Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajierene View Post
    Equibrit, the criteria you listed just proves her as a 1099, according to what I have been able to glean from her posts.

    She is not told how or when to do such tasks. Morning feeding is just sometime in the morning. She can clean stalls in the morning or the evening and if she wants to pick every pile up by hand, she can. Evening feedings are sometime in the evening, again, no specific time.

    She is paid a flat fee per week, regardless of if it takes one hour per day or ten.

    There is also no written contract.
    This is all true. I am not paid by the hour. The BO acutally know nothing about horses, so I am the one they look to for infomation on what to do. I am the one who has taught them anything they do know about working at a barn.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2008
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    4,090

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    That's a great advantage for you and if they know what they are doing, they will keep you on and increase your pay as their business increases.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar. 19, 2003
    Posts
    374

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    Ajierene and tattooedrdr
    The part that would likely discredit tattoedrdr as an independent contractor is:

    - The extent to which the worker can realize a profit or loss. Since an employer usually provides employees a workplace, tools, materials, equipment, and supplies needed for the work, and generally pays the costs of doing business, employees do not have an opportunity to make a profit or loss. An independent contractor can make a profit or loss.

    I think you need to read Equibrit's post again.

    tattoedrdr if you start a lesson program and run the whole thing yourself using your own horses as lesson horses it might change things a bit but just taking care of the barn I would believe that would be stretching it a bit.
    M
    Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from behind, or a fool from any direction



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    93

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    If you are anywhere near NC please PM me I know of a barn that could use your willingness to work in excange of an apartment and low board.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2000
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,994

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    They are struggling right now which is why I have kinda agreed to get screwed a bit to help them out,
    That’s their problem, not YOUR problem. Do not make it your problem.

    They need me more than I need them at the moment. I am not looking to screw them over, but I pointed out that if I left they would not be able to get a live in barn manager with the same deal as how would they eat. I am turning 25 this year and do not want to live off my mom. I need to be in a position where I can make money and get off my mom's pay roll. I think the BO and I are on the same page, so I am much happier.
    Let’s play with some numbers here. We’ll assume the apartment is worth $700 a month, because it’s a two bedroom, but on the lower end of the two bedrooms because it’s in the boonies. We’ll say you work 6-hours a day, 6-days a week. You can adjust my numbers if they’re inaccurate.

    Take $700 and multiply it by 12. That’s $8400. Divide $8400 by 52 weeks per year and you make a weekly salary of about $161, assuming you work absolutely no overtime. Divide that by the 36 hours you work per week and your hourly rate is $4.48 per hour.

    Granted, adding two horses into the equation ups your salary significantly, but you’re paying for their food. I don’t know what board is like in your area, so we’ll add $200 per horse for a self-care stall. That’s $1,100 a month. Multiply it by 12 and you’re making $13,200 per year, $253 per week, $7.05 per hour.

    The federal poverty line in this country is $10,400. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. I.E., cleaning the fry pan at Mcdonalds and cleaning gas station toilets pays more.

    And on top of this, you do not get health care, and you’re paying THEM?

    It’s not your prerogative to worry about “screwing them over” when they’re paying you under minimum wage. They’re screwing YOU over. Give them two weeks notice to prevent them from being “completely screwed” and go find a better job.

    This is one of those things that’s consistently ridiculous about the horse industry. For some reason, people think that just because folks want to work with horses, that they should feel privileged to be there and willing to work for free, or should happily bankrupt themselves in the process. Unbelievable. There are plenty of better deals out there.
    ---
    They're small hearts.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2007
    Location
    Alpharetta
    Posts
    2,124

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    Wow, I would turn this thing into an opportunity and how! 24 stalls are you kidding me, is it a nice place?

    I'd get those stalls filled and hire a Hispanic man to do stalls and start a lesson program.

    If the BO has no desires for the place, then you can make the place what you want and have your own business and stop counting on mommy. I'm a mommy and I wouldn't have a problem helping my kid, if she was as sweet as you sound.

    Good luck let us know! do you have a ring? Good pasture?



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr. 12, 2002
    Location
    Former Long Islander now in the middle of the Great Lakes
    Posts
    1,655

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    OK ... gettting a clearer picture now. Yes you are getting screwed .. but your letting yourself get screwed , They are actually depending on you to give them income by renting their apt. . You are working for free and paying them in return for the privlage. By my account you should be getting about $600.00 per month plus the apt and the board on the two horse and yes there should be a phone in the barn, it's a public boarding stable. this is a basic business practice and if they are too stupid to understand that they don't belong in business . They need to understand , you cannot communicate with your customer base nor increase it with out a phone! If you start teaching for them it should be a 1/3rd cut of each lesson .



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2000
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,994

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    Granted, adding two horses into the equation ups your salary significantly, but you’re paying for their food. I don’t know what board is like in your area, so we’ll add $200 per horse for a self-care stall. That’s $1,100 a month. Multiply it by 12 and you’re making $13,200 per year, $253 per week, $7.05 per hour.
    Allow me to edit my numbers. I missed the part where it was costing $180 per month for BOTH horses.

    So we'll say $700 for the apartment + $180 each horse. $1060 total compensation/month, $12,720 per year. $244 per week, $6.79 an hour if you NEVER go over 6 hours a day.

    Please keep in mind if you're ordering shavings, calling vet/farrier, etc, you're more of a barn manager position than a minimum wage worker, position, also. Your salary should commensurate with that.
    ---
    They're small hearts.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun. 2, 2009
    Posts
    1,258

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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedrdr View Post
    I just do not want to waste my time in a dead end job if there is no future salary and money to be made.
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you really want to look at making a good future salary then you shouldn't be in horse work. There is rarely any money to be made there working for someone else. If I was you I'd use my college education to get a real career, make money and just board your horses out. Economically you are on a loser right from the get-go with this deal.



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2000
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
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    Wow, I would turn this thing into an opportunity and how! 24 stalls are you kidding me, is it a nice place?

    I'd get those stalls filled and hire a Hispanic man to do stalls and start a lesson program.
    Why specifically a "Hispanic man"?

    The OP does not have the capital to start a business at the moment. It's awfully difficult to start a business without insurance, without start up costs - she makes below minimum wage. And she sure as heck can't afford to pay anyone else.

    If the OP were to formulate a business plan and discuss it with the barn owner, perhaps the BO could help her with start up costs. But that's a bit dubious considering the BO has absolutely no problem compensating her below minimum wage and forcing her employee to borrow money from her mother to afford to eat.
    ---
    They're small hearts.



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2007
    Location
    Alpharetta
    Posts
    2,124

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    please don't get the wrong idea about "Hispanic" man, I mean it in the best way, the men I have known work very hard and are very good with horses,

    I'm sure not all of course but the ones I've known have been great. Alot of them have grown up with horses in Mexico and are very familiar with horses from a young age.

    Most men that have grown up here do not know a thing about horses and would not take that kind of job, generally speaking.



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jan. 7, 2009
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    1,363

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    This is one of those things that’s consistently ridiculous about the horse industry. For some reason, people think that just because folks want to work with horses, that they should feel privileged to be there and willing to work for free, or should happily bankrupt themselves in the process. Unbelievable. There are plenty of better deals out there.
    Amen - I have been in situations like that. . .like you said, because I enjoy working with horses the owner of the barn apparently thought I didn't need to be able to afford groceries. I did morning feeding, turnout, cleaning all of the stalls (14-24 horses), all vet/farrier scheduling, ordering feed and bedding, plus whatever other jobs needed to be done.

    Though my "schedule" was 5 1/2 days per week, I was pretty much working six full days with no sick days or vacation days or holidays available. On my day off, minimal work was done (basically, just feeding/watering). There were even times when a horse needed a bandage to be changed or a shot needed to be given, but the owner was too afraid to do it so she didn't do it at all. None of the stalls were cleaned and often the horses were not turned out, so when I came back the following day it took me twice as long to clean them.

    I also paid board for my own horse (was taken out of my paycheck), but rarely got to do anything with him because by the time my workday was over I just wanted to go home. Eventually, when the barn was full of broodmares and new foals and I was swamped with work I asked if there was a way that they could hire someone p/t on weekends while I worked weekdays. That way, the work would be done every day. My suggestion was rejected.

    Shortly thereafter, someone else WAS hired part-time. . .though the schedule changed so that we both worked 6 day weeks, with half-days on the days we were both scheduled and full days when the other person was off. Eventually I was "replaced" entirely by the other employee.

    Ironically, only a month or so later I saw an advertisement in the local classifieds from that same barn owner. She was looking for a full-time barn manager to work weekdays, and someone to clean stalls part-time on weekends.
    Please copy and paste this to your signature if you know someone, or have been affected by someone who needs a smack upside the head. Lets raise awareness.



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2000
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,994

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    Most men that have grown up here do not know a thing about horses and would not take that kind of job, generally speaking.
    Yeah. Because it's unsustainable and unlivable. I wonder why no one wants to do that kind of work...
    ---
    They're small hearts.



  15. #35
    tattooedrdr Guest

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    The BO came over today and said we are shutting the barn down. They gave the current trainer till Monday to get her horses out of here. I do not have to be out as soon since I live here and all, but yea.



    So its over. They are closing the barn and putting it up for sale. They did not just buy it, but built it for their daughter to run, but she got busy helping her husbands job and it kinda fell by the wayside and into some debt and mom and dad thought they could just come in and fix it all. They worked some number and after 6 weeks of giving it a go they decided it was not worth it. So its over.



    Thankfully, I was offered a wonderful job to help assist my vet while I go get my vet tech degree, and on top of it live in the guest house at his place. So thankfully, I am moving into a better situation where I think money can be made. I started out in college life was hoping to go to vet school, but decided not to go right after college. I have all my pre-recs to do so. So, now I have an oppotunity to work for a vet that I respect and learn from him and get my vet tech degree so then I can be a real part of his practice.



    So all in all it worked out for the better I guess.



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