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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2008
    Location
    Vermont
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    313

    Default Radiant Heat Stall Mats?

    Does anyone know of a company that makes this or has anyone tried to jerry-rig it themselves? I'm thinking of a low heat (but well above freezing, say 50/60 degrees), low maintenance system. Any ideas? I thought perhaps a closed water system circulating water heated by a stock tank or aquarium heater? Just something to take the edge off Vermont's winter with arthritic horses...

    Thanks



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
    Posts
    9,297

    Default

    I didn't know they made them! How do they prevent overheating shavings?
    And are they made the same way as the heated sidewalks at my college?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2008
    Location
    Vermont
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    313

    Default

    I'm trying to find out if anyone has made them- I found one designer who had made radiant concrete aisles in a cow barn, and was wondering if a stall mat were possible. It seems to me that if one were to lay the hose in stonedust or screenings, then put one's rubber mats on top, there wouldn't be any problem with shavings, etc. It would be easier still if one had stall skins, or the stall mattress things.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 16, 2008
    Location
    Central Oklahoma
    Posts
    3,399

    Default

    Basically the in floor radiant heater in the stalls is the same as the one you might install at home. The heat generated should not be concern for fire hazard. However, EXPENSIVE!!! You need to first lay a barrier so you are not heating the earth, pour concrete, lay the radiant heating elements, cover it up with more concrete, and then stall mats. It is probably cheaper to just hang a heat lamp. That is what I do in foaling seasons anyway.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2008
    Location
    Vermont
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    313

    Default

    But instead of pouring concrete (as I don't want concrete floors in my stalls), couldn't I lay the PEX or hose in a layer of stonedust, cover it with another layer of stonedust, and then put on a mat, as usual? Heat rises, so it would naturally warm the ground, then up - ? Even something more flexible than PEX - like garden hose - couldn't that work with a low-heat system?



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    15,135

    Default

    You'd probably be better off with a regular underfloor heating with mats on top. You need the heating elements to transfer the eat to the concrete so that it can hold it. You would be defeating that by using stonedust.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2003
    Posts
    5,752

    Default

    I have boarded at a barn with underfloor heating.

    It was a beautiful, well maintained barn with big clean stalls.

    Good Lord, it stank. The ammonia fumes in the barn on a winter's morning were eye-watering. And that was with several extractor fans venting into the indoor.

    My boots sitting on the tack room floor were always wonderfully warm and dry, though.

    (We had a heated indoor there too--now that was nice.)

    If I were you, I'd not do the stall floors, and I'd just buy some nice Back on Track wraps to keep their legs warm.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2004
    Location
    Monterey Bay, California
    Posts
    104

    Default

    I was looking for heated dog pads when I found these:

    http://shelving.com/Merchant2/mercha...V01/CTGY/HTMat

    HeatTrakĀ® Heated Outdoor Mats Are Portable
    No expensive installation; Designed to lie on top of existing surfaces
    Good for entrances, stairs, loading docks, handicap ramps, rooftops, decks; Good for foot and wheelchair access in the winter

    Wonder how much power they draw? How much would it add to the electrical bill? Also, I would not think they would stand up to shod hooves and I would not take the risk of wear & tear.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,863

    Default

    I have a HeatTrak for my steps for winter ice. They can be driven over by a car, but not dented or folded or have uneven pressure. IMO NOT suitable for hooves with 1000 lbs pressure. Its electricity running through them.
    Electricity + horse shoes + urine + uneven pressure= Baaaad idea.

    That said it does keep ice off, but are really heavy.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    10,199

    Default

    A normal horse is going to weigh about 1000 lbs. and that weight is distributed over a relatively few square inches of very hard material, often with a "cutting edge." That means any flooring product has to be pretty "robust." Also, you want some sort of "thermal mass" to hold heat so you don't have to run the system for long periods of time (at great expense). I suspect that's why concrete would be the leading candidate for such a system.

    But, as noted, you're going to have problems with odor as you're essentially "cooking" your manure, urine, shavings, etc. The barn will have to be very "tight" to hold heat; that will also hold amonia fumes. The respiratory problems that come from this might easily overcome any relief that arthritic horses might enjoy.

    As noted radiant heat lamps are probably a better solution.

    G.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 16, 2008
    Location
    Central Oklahoma
    Posts
    3,399

    Default

    If you have your heart set on infloor radiant heat, it is probably better to put it in the aisle not in the stalls, as some have pointed out that the ammonia smell will probably knock you out... Also the heating element itself is not strong so you need something strong like concrete to protect it. And even though heat rises up, the energy transfer to its surrounding so if you don't lay a barrier first, well, you will be heating the earth.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

    Default

    If you're convinced heating their legs is going to help them (which is questionable), why not invest in some Back On Track-type wraps and heat the legs, not the barn? Environmentally and efficiency-wise, heating a barn is just really, really difficult unless you compromise air circulation.
    Click here before you buy.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
    Posts
    6,213

    Thumbs down

    DON'T! Yikes it REEEEEEKS. Even in metiuculously maintained stalls. I about passed out.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
    Location
    Beyond the pale.
    Posts
    2,957

    Default

    overhead infrared heaters.
    too much happens on the floor.
    Even kennel heating mats are expensive, I can't think of what it would cost for a horse stall- plus as others mention, ammonia fumes because the heat in the bedding will promote the bacteria that create the ammonia.

    The overhead heaters will keep your oldies happy and are easy to access or fix if something goes wrong.
    "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2005
    Location
    The Land of the Frozen
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    Default

    Last year I experimented with turning one of my stalls into a "deep litter" system. WOW. I was completely impressed. It involved a learning curve, but was well worth the effort. I admit to being pretty much horrified at the thought the first time I read it here on COTH but watching my young endurance horse get stiff and creaky in her stall each night through the winter, it was worth a shot.

    I have concrete stalls with mats on top. I was bedding deep, but she still just looked 'ouch' when she got up after lying down for a couple of hours.

    Basically with the deep litter system, you remove all the manure but leave the wet shavings. The urine soaks to the bottom and sort of "breaks down" the shavings over time. You keep adding a thin layer of dry shavings on top. The shavings that are decomposing on the bottom stay warm with the decomposition process. The shavings on top stay dry and fluffy. There is NO smell, unless you're not maintaining the stall correctly, or if your horse digs up the stall.

    A pawer, or spinner could never have a deep litter stall, but for quiet horses, I found it to work beautifully. (After I figured out the correct way to clean out the manure without disturbing the wet stuff.)

    My shavings usage in that stall decreased dramatically. The floor was always springy and warm, and the horse was visibly more limber and comfortable.

    The downside is that you have to dig it all out and start over 1x a year. I've been working on the stall off and on this summer and just about have it done.

    To start with, you need to use like 10 bags of shvings to get a really deep bed. Then just keep picking out the manure, but not the wet shavings. Rake dry shavings over on top of the wet. After about 4 weeks, the whole bottom of the stall is covered in packed/wet shavings, and you maintain a good layer of dry on top of that. I kept my dry layer maybe 5" deep or so. I think I was putting in 1 new bag of shavings about every 10 days. I would dump a new bag in the corner, then sprinkle another 2 forkfulls or so over the stall each day.

    If done correctly, there is no smell, and the stall always looks like a clean, freshly bedded stall. The only difference is that the horse can't sink or scrape through the shavings down to the mats. They are always suspended on top of a thick layer of compacted shavings.

    Anyway, it does not answer your question, but it might be another option if you can't figure out a way to do in-floor heat.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 29, 2005
    Posts
    2,625

    Default

    hmmm all I can think of when someone mentions infloor heating in a barn...

    GIANT Glad plug-ins of the not-so-air-freshener-type.



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