Crosby did indeed make a PSG with a wide tree, but if I recall correctly, it wasn't super wide.
My saddle experience:
I had a saddle fitter come out for my tank like beastie. The fitter brought tons of saddles. The saddle that fit her the best was the Anky Euro XCH system and AMS 2 zone panel system. My tank uses the extra wide gullet plate. She has huge shoulders and a back like a table. We tried a bunch of saddles on my girl, but everything else got in the way of her shoulders. I find the Anky fits me much like a Jaguar. It has a deep seat and decent sized knee blocks.
I tried the Wintec Isabell...actually, I owned one and sold it. The gullet system and panels are worlds away from the Anky. The Anky has a very wide gullet and leaves much room for a wide spine. It also has short tree points.
I hope I was able to offer a little bit of help. Good luck!
Last edited by Invite; Aug. 8, 2009 at 08:22 PM.
Yeah, I second that - I tried one of those old PSG saddles on my medium-wide horse many years back, and it was way too narrow. Their medium was more of a medium-narrow, and their wide was more of a medium.
If I remember right, doesn't the Neidersuiss have a fairly narrow twist?
My Schleese, which I bought used, has a narrow twist (one of their models is actually made for women and has a very narrow twist; can;t remember which one), and a very long flap. Really long. The long flap is the only thing I don't love about, in fact, because it's really too long for my leg. I had it fit and flocked for my horse when I bought it. It is a dream to ride in, too-long flap and all (next time the rep comes to fit, I'm going to ask about shipping it to the factory to be shortened). Mine has a large knee/thigh block; other models don't have them so big.
The barn consensus was I may need a wide saddle with a narrower twist and a LONG flap. ANY IDEAS? What do you COTHers suggest?
Can one, GASP, get a tree widened? I'm thinking, not...
Almost any saddle's tree can be widened, but usually only by one or two sizes. Take it to your nearest qualified saddler and ask them what they think.
Regarding your description, a lot of the Passier tack *potentially* fits that description. It's a question of finding which one will fit your horse and you. And Passier does go that wide. Talk to pintopiaffe about her love affair with her ancient Passier saddle.
it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
Oh yes, I am madly, passionately in loff with my Ancient Passier. I wasn't at first--well, I thought it was aesthetically the most beautiful saddle I'd ever met, but damn if it wasn't a beeyatch to get used to actually RIDING in. Now... <blissful sigh>... now it's good, (um, but not easy, I actually have to RIDE! I 'lost' my sitting trot for probably 4 or 5 months--because it was bigger and freer on the horse's part, and because I had to learn to sit without help of bucket seats and thighrolls. ) *and His Princeness and the Pea Approves* (that sound is me knocking wood so madly I've scared the woodpeckers off from the entire County!)
Honestly, different Passier models feel very different in the twist/waist department. I got a cousin to the Ancient Passier, what I *thought* was the same in just 1/2" smaller seat, and the waist is a good inch wider. You gotta kiss a lot of frogs. It's still a PT VD, so I've no idea how you're supposed to tell it's different... but it is.
I can safely say that ANCIENT Passiers (i.e. the old "Traditional" or PT model) go wider than anything off the shelf I've found today with exception of Duett and Wintec Wide. The Duett waist and flatter seat spot did not agree with my hip. The Wintec wide has gusseted rear panels which were quite sharp edged for His Princeness, I never actually rode in one long enough to know how they feel--they do come in a VSD flap now.
I emailed Passier once about which current models might work for us, seeing as Ancient Passiers in the same tree width & seat size are rarer than hen's teeth. They told me the Hubertus Schmidt (sp?) and I *think* the Optimum might feel similar. The Corona *looks* like it should, but I've never sat in any of them. I know that I hate the GG/Nicole and the Patron--both rise to quickly to the pommel and are wide in the waist. The Katrin is lovely in the seat & waist, but the flap is quite straight and long--maybe perfect for you? The waist seams in the Ancient Passier are no further than two fingers width apart--so probably an inch. When shopping (online) I always ask people to measure the waist at the narrowest part for me now, learned that after kissing two frogs ago...
The good news is any Passier with the Baum tree is the most adjustable of just about all saddles. The older, the better I'm told. You wouldn't want to try to make a #2 into an XXW, but if you can get a #4 or #5, there is quite a bit of room for improvement. My guy's Three Bear's Porridge is a #5 that was widened slightly, probably at original purchase. For comparison, he 'fits' a 37cm Prestige, a 40cm Duett and is too wide for the widest Thornhills and non-custom Counties and Albions. So, yeah, they can be widened. About $200 the last time I had it done, I get a reflock too, as that also helps fit.
I also think that Passier is the closest to the Crosby.
I have found that all of my Crosbys run a bit narrow tree width.
I do have an older Passier Baum fits the horses great, but I've lost weight and find it just a bit big, not sure whether to sell or not as I really like the narrow twist.
The others that are both wide[horse] and narrow[me]
Marcus Krehan and Jorge Canavas[older, before thornhill]
Yes, the PSG did come in a wide tree. I don't know about a PSG fit, but my Robert Dover Crosby Freestyle II is quite the unique and nice find (incredibly sad it doesn't fit my horse). Its a beautiful open saddle to ride, minimal, elegant and a quite deep seat, with a narrow twist.
I currently have the saddle on loan to my B/M to try, though she hasn't yet. She is trying it on her 17.2 IDSH. The shape fits him like a glove, but is over all too wide for him, and he's currently riding in a W tree Ideal. The pitch of the rear panels fits him though.
To my knowledge, Crosby spring trees can be modified, but not by much. You want to work with someone who is qualified Society of Master Saddlers. This person serves my area and I was going to have her adjust a spring treed saddle for me (but the seat ended up being too small ) http://www.dutchessbridlesaddle.com/
I don't know that I'd compare a PSG to a passier, perhaps a newer passier? All the passier's I've had were quite a bit older, and though extremely comfortable, not soft in any way. PSG's to my knowledge are softer to ride.
My RD is probably one of the nicest saddles I've ever ridden.
I hope this is helpful.
Last edited by buck22; Aug. 10, 2009 at 05:43 PM.
Reason: I can't spell
Thanks guys--Al Gore's internet couldn't help me answer that tricky question, but luckily, the COTHers did!
PintoPiaffe--I actually owned said Ancient Passier for 12 years and until about 5 hours ago when I traded it for a Crosby PSG Softride Wide. --I agree--it was phenomenal for working with young ones or the TB rescues I've been riding--but I was looking for something with a bit more "help"/"structure"
I did my time developing my seat and leg in the ancient Passier (the PS Baum) and I'm so thankful I did! But, yes, it was a M tree--not wide enough for my wide warmblood. It was a love affair that ended, but the Baum has moved on to greener pastures (literally--the pro wanted something to break babies in) and my bum just traded it for Crosby PSG Softride Wide tree 7 miles up the road (how many puns were in that sentence! ). It was meant to be, methinks. Can't wait to give it a spin tomorrow. Great info on the Passiers and the high rise, etc.--I'm saving that to my computer...the high rise bothers me loins.
Invite and Fresian--Good info--I'll scrutinze the fit tomorrow...it looked wide enough for my needs, I think, but yes, it's definately not as wide as many saddles I've seen!
Buck--Great tip--I'll remember that if I wind up having to search some more. Oh, and P.S.--morgans rule.
Henry--I would like to sit in a Schlesse at some point...they definately seem to be the rage right now!