[LarissaL]

Hi all, I'm in the process of prepping an Arab/Saddlebred cross for sale and trying to figure out how to market him. One possibility, that I'm basing on his attitude, way of going and my limited of knowledge of the sport, is that he might make a game competitive trail or endurance mount.

What qualities you do you look for in a green horse that might speak to a future in these sports? My guy is about 90 days under saddle (and will be sold as a "prospect" for any discipline), so things like exposure to new situations will obviously be limited but I wonder about other things - like do you prefer one who has a certain kind of walk/trot/canter? Specific way of travelling? A particular size?

[wendybird]

It's important to understand that until a horse has actually done some endurance and shown itself to be able to perform, it's not actually very valuable at all (as an endurance horse).

I learnt this for myself when I bought a full brother to my feisty little mare, thinking that as he was a couple of inches taller, he would be an even more capable distance horse. Unfortunately the endurance gene seems to have passed him by - he just doesn't get it.

So breeding is no guarantee. However I will look at bloodlines and what the relatives have done in competition.

Soundness is non-negotiable, and I like a low standing heart rate. I look for a deep girth and well sprung ribs, and I like a lean-muscled short-backed arab not more than 15hh. I'll go for the alert inquisitive expression over a pretty face, and I look at the hooves and legs very closely. Then I'll look at the action which I want smooth, forward and ground covering. I can't be bothered with temperamental types.

THEN I'll ride it and maybe buy it if the price is right, but realising that I'll have to condition it for several years to make it into a valuable horse capable of doing the 100 milers.

But that's just me - others will have different priorities.

I think that selling it as a prospect is the sensible way to go.

[LarissaL]

Thank you VERY much! That's super helpful. Interesting to me, as an outsider, that things like heart rate are really a factor. That never would have occurred to me.

Then I'll look at the action which I want smooth, forward and ground covering.

For endurance, do you look at all gaits or is one more important than the other? I know many dressage riders evaluate the horse's canter first in a prospect.

I think that selling it as a prospect is the sensible way to go.

He's definitely a prospect (and priced accordingly) no matter how I advertise him I am primarily concerned with advertising him to the right riders who are a good match for him and can enjoy him. He's already run through a few sales and I think he deserves a home that fits him, finally. Thanks again!

[prudence]

A good place to advertise him would be on www.endurance.net

Best of luck to you - sb/arab is a great cross IMHO!

[pusher]

For endurance, do you look at all gaits or is one more important than the other? I know many dressage riders evaluate the horse's canter first in a prospect.



!

To me a good trot is the most important gait. I want an arab to start with since they seem to be the dominant breed for the sport. I also like a good attitude. One that looks at every new trail as an adventure and reallys seems to eat it up. One that is bold about going down a new trail.
Feet and legs are the most important along with attitude.

[chicamuxen1]

The typical trail rider, whether they are competing or not, doesn't want a spooky, fearful or barn sour horse. So work with him on desensitizing. Think natural horsemanship stuff. if you haven't done any of it then watch some videos, audit a clinic, whatever. This is the stuff that comes first. Standing still to be tacked up, walks across tarps, crosses water. stands still for weird things, rides out away from home alone, willingly. Stands still for mounting, while jackets are put on, plastic bottles crinkled (I learned this one the hard way!). Work on the stuff that waaaayyyy too many arena horses don't do well! This will sell the horse for you.

bonnie S.

[wendybird]

but endurance horses do develop a trot over time, and as their HQ develop, the trot gets bigger and faster. Walking doesn't matter, and when my pony drops out of a trot the walk is a prelude to stopping. It took her a couple of seasons to become comfortable with cantering, but now has a very nice hand gallop which gives her (and me) a breather from trotting.
Heart rate does improve with conditioning - it's just that if you start off with a standing HR of, say 36, you know it's going to get lower over time, and recovery in the vet gate will be quicker.
A good endurance horse soon learns that the world is an interesting and variable place, but it has a job to do, so doesn't waste energy in spooking or acting up - the impetus is always forward. If you watch, they nearly always have their ears pricked forward - mine look for the trail markers up ahead.
I think most experienced endurance riders would have the skill to do their own desensitising of a new horse, but a beginner trail rider may not have a clue how to go about it. If these are the potential buyers, then you will have to do more, but will they want to pay for the work you have done?
I hope you find a good home.

[saratoga]

What *I* look for is a young Arab or Arab cross (I really like the Arab-SB cross too). Personally, I really look for CHEAP too. In my area, there are lots of young Arabs being advertised for $1000 or less that look nice. I'd look at the overall appearance of the horse, I like good hooves, straight legs, and strong hindquarters, with a big, ground covering stride. I dont mind spooky because it seems like a lot of the good ones are, especially at first. I also like horses that are curious and friendly

[silvia]

You also want a horse that trailers well, good with the farrier!

[rainechyldes]

There are a fair number of endurance riders who prefer Arab crosses, as opposed to purebred (me for one)

Things I look for in a prospect (not necessarily in this order)
Price
Gait
Attitude
Conformation
Age
anything over 4 is not a prospect imo and I will disregard them as such. After the age of 4 - I expect to see some type of performance record in endurance already.

[Guilherme]

Quiet Temperment.

Conformation appropriate to the discipline.

Easy way of going.

G.

[psidio]

Most of these folks have offered very sound advice.

I would quibble with "anything over 4 is not a prospect imo and I will disregard them as such. After the age of 4 - I expect to see some type of performance record in endurance already.".. Many horses come to endurance after failing in another area. My horse, Piper, was a failure for three years as a Hunter Jumper. His owners spent about $20K in training bills, and he was a zero in that type of event. I got him as a 7 year old. My gut feeling is that relatively few current endurance horses started their career in this field, but came to it after washing out in Dressage, Hunter Jumper, Racing or other arena events.

Now, while I agree soundness is non-negotiatable, the rest of desired traits people look for, depth of girth, hoof size, canon bones etc are not all absolute necessities. When I got Piper, at a sale, a very experienced Endurance horse buyer rejected him for those very reasons We have to use a 20 inch girth, he wears 00 and sometimes 000 shoes, and his canon bones were 6 1/2 in diameter when I bought him. Despite those less than desired specs, he has carried me, tacking out well over 200 pounds, for a bunch of 50's and three 100's, and would be considered by many to be a decent Endurance horse.

I look for a soft eye, good heart, and sound mind. Add all that to soundness, and it will be just fine. My personal belief is that pretty much any sound horse can do 50's in the allowed 12 hours given the time and conditioning. If you want to do that 50 in the 5 hour or less range, you need a special horse. Until you've done a lot of miles on that horse, you will not know if he is special or just an ordinary endurance horse.

Some horses that are full of energy and wanting to run when you first get on them will spit it out and quit after a few miles. Many times we see people with an untrained runaway type horse that they think would be great for endurance. Usually they aren't. It takes heart, brains, and soul to want to carry you 25-50 or 100 miles.

Paul N. Sidio
KMA Chazz Piper
VA Southern Gentleman (General Lee)
Spokane MO

[Auventera Two]

Anything over 4 should be disregarded? Hmmm. I guess age, as long as it's reasonable doesn't bother me at all. I bought an un-started, 8 yr old stallion this spring as an endurance prospect. So far, he is every bit the horse I hoped for, plus some!

When purchasing both my Arabs, I looked for gait, temperament, personality, conformation, hooves, and color. I hate the chestnut color. Sorry, I do. LOL! So I didn't even look at anything chestnut. Knew I wanted a bay, so only looked at Bays. Didn't really care about cost. Cheap or expensive, if it was what I wanted, I was going to buy it.

I think you "just know" when you come across a very special horse. My mare was a weanling and I could just see something special in her then.

My two Arabs, who have everything I want in an endurance horse:

The mare - here's the little punkin I fell in love with:
http://www.hphoofcare.com/Sweets%20(6).jpg
And here she is today:
http://www.hphoofcare.com/PADRONA10.jpg

And the boy:
http://www.hphoofcare.com/Andre100.jpg

The mare has only done 25s and a 35. She's consistently gotten As for vet scores, and has super recoveries. She has a real desire to go down the trail, and she is fiercely competitive. We do 25s in about 3:20 or so, enough to Top 10. Twice she's been a point away from High Vet Score. This fall will be our first 50s, if all goes well!

[wendybird]

I love those ponies of yours. Your boy looks the very picture of virility!

We do our 25s in 3.15 depending on the going, and usually come in about 5th or 6th and our 50s the last one was 6.20, and we were fairly well back in the field. One 25 we did in 2hr 5, but that was a flat track. Her HRs are great and so far no vetting problems, so this year we're mainly going to do 50s.

Lovely to read of someone in another country performing similarly.

[matryoshka]

When the rescue I volunteered for had an Arabian in, I thought she'd make a good competitive trail horse, and we advertised her as such. No interest all summer.

Then I took her to a 30-mile CTR, she completed, and the phone began to ring. We had our choice of homes for her after that. She was only 14hh and very calm. The sweet mare went to a wonderful home. If you can possibly take the horse to a distance competition, that would help. If he's too young to compete, see if you can ride drag (behind the competitors). That'll get him seen and you'll know how he does out on the trail.

A smooth/comfortable trot is another real benefit for trail riders. I know quite a few people who camp and go on long distance rides--they like comfortable gaits. Most don't mind desensitizing a green horse themselves, but a sane, sound horse with some miles will generate interest.

If you can't do a competition, try to get him into a trail ride where they cover some distance.

[rainechyldes]

I said something over 4 (I) meaning me alone- would not consider them a prospect.
No way inferring that anything over 4 is not a prospect for anyone else. If over 4 'I' wish to see some type of LD experience. As I said. 'I'

That is why I said I would not consider them a prospect if I was looking at the horse.
Gotta read for comprehension gang

also take into the fact I sell endurance horses. I don't have recall ever having a ton of luck selling a mature horse 8-12 years old as an endurance 'prospect', to the riders I associate with or know in the PNW. They would give me a serious 'squint' if I offered them such. So to me, I look as at prospect as a younger horse.

an older horse, if I have one up for sale, needs to have some mileage before many riders will look at it, and being I want that horse sold, I need to follow the majority of riders, not the smaller percentage who might be 'willing' to look at an untried older horse as a prospect.