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  1. #1
    RohanLtd Guest

    Default Stallion suggestions for KWPN mare

    I have a KWPN mare who I'd love for y'all to feel free to make stallion suggestions for. She had a very nice foal by a paint stallion this year, and now that we know she is a good mom, I'm thinking about the future.

    I would be breeding either for myself or for resale, which are two different options and would result in two different stallions. For resale, she might make nice dressage horses as Ulft is her damsire. For me, I'd love a nice, big hunter, would settle for a jumper, as that might be more what she could provide. I am capable of keeping any and all offspring.

    She is a big, heavy, "old style" Dutch. She's a solid 16.3 hands, 1500+ lbs and wears size 4 shoes. She is sometimes mistaken for a Clyde cross. She has quite a bit of Gelderlander in her. She has a quiet disposition and I am not truly able to assess her quality of movement or jumping style due to a mild neurological injury that she came with. She is rideable, but I'm not sure what her true pre-injury movement was. There isn't a whole lot about her that I'd mind if it got passed on to a foal, and that's why I've decided to breed her.

    Her pedigree is here:
    http://tinyurl.com/kwrshh

    And photos of her are here:
    http://tinyurl.com/l534zq

    I'd be interested in your thoughts, as we've got some good breeding geeks here (and I mean that in the most respectful way!) who may certainly have some ideas I've not thought of yet. Have fun with it if you wish.

    K



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2004
    Location
    Fauquier County, VA
    Posts
    10,465

    Default

    Cool mare; interesting pedigree. Siegi B is very knowledgeable about Dutch lines, hopefully she will chime in.

    My initial thoughts are:

    Idocus has produced hunters and dressage horses, and is a good jumper himself. You would be line breeding New Mexico, but it is pretty far back in the pedigree and I think would be fine (or a plus). http://www.dutchwarmbloodhorses.com/idocus.htm

    Idocus' son, Olivier, is reputed to produce ammie friendly horses; I am not sure about their jumping aptitude, though (I only know his dressage babies).

    Popeye K is a super hunter stallion by Voltaire, a sire known to produce very good hunters and jumpers. You'd be linebreeding Furioso, but again, it is far back in the pedigrees.


    http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/popeye+k



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    244

    Default

    Maintain some of that Gelderlander blood and breed to the Austin's stallion Olivier! He's reputed to have a lovely temperament and of course is incredibly talented and is said to pass these traits on.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2004
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    Fauquier County, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by b View Post
    Maintain some of that Gelderlander blood and breed to the Austin's stallion Olivier! He's reputed to have a lovely temperament and of course is incredibly talented and is said to pass these traits on.
    Good point re the Gelderlander blood, as it is so rare, though I would think that would veer more towards dressage (a dressage powerhouse), no? There was a thread recently on gelderlanders in which Olivier was discussed:

    http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum...lander+olivier



  5. #5
    RohanLtd Guest

    Default

    Yankee Lawyer, I have been a big fan of Popeye K and have seriously considered him for my mare, though the baby likely would be HUGE (he's 17.1!) and probably kind of heavy. Heavy is not a problem for me, and if I was lucky, I might get one of those bays with a lot of white, between the two of them.

    b, I was quite surprised, when I began really looking at her pedigree, that she had so much Gelderlander. To be honest, I don't know much about the Gelderlander, but thought that it might be worth preserving. We humans (women especially, I guess) have this innate desire to nurture the rare or unique, and I've wondered if itis worth looking at her from the Gelderlander perpective. I will do the Gelderlander research you've recommended.

    I've also been considering Balou du Rouet for her, which would take it a completely different direction.

    Keep the suggestions coming - I've learned a lot already!!

    K



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 12, 2008
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    62

    Default KWPN mare

    Check out Contester II by Contender. With his second foal crop on the ground he is proving to produce gorgeous refined leggy foals with outstanding characters. We are running a late season breeding special for the remainder of 2009 to approved mares, 1/2 off stud fees.

    Good Luck! There are many nice stallions out there to choose from.
    JW Sporthorses
    Home to Contester II
    (Contender/Lancetto)
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/JW-Spo...s/256565069298



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2004
    Location
    Fauquier County, VA
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    10,465

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RohanLtd View Post
    Yankee Lawyer, I have been a big fan of Popeye K and have seriously considered him for my mare, though the baby likely would be HUGE (he's 17.1!) and probably kind of heavy. Heavy is not a problem for me, and if I was lucky, I might get one of those bays with a lot of white, between the two of them.

    b, I was quite surprised, when I began really looking at her pedigree, that she had so much Gelderlander. To be honest, I don't know much about the Gelderlander, but thought that it might be worth preserving. We humans (women especially, I guess) have this innate desire to nurture the rare or unique, and I've wondered if itis worth looking at her from the Gelderlander perpective. I will do the Gelderlander research you've recommended.

    I've also been considering Balou du Rouet for her, which would take it a completely different direction.

    Keep the suggestions coming - I've learned a lot already!!

    K

    The person to talk to about Olivier's pedigree and gelderlanders is Madeleine Austin, who posts here as Imajica. Here is their website:

    http://www.imajica.net/olivier.html

    I did note your mare's size but I am not sure Popeye would *add* heaviness (as opposed to simply not lightening her up). Hmmm. Maybe some owners of Popeye K offspring could chime in.

    Balou is an interesting idea (I love him) but I think I prefer the other boys mentioned.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    7,412

    Default

    I would definately go with refinement stallion. I would choose a Thoroughbred stallion or a blooded stallion such as Vallado. With Vallado, you will get the blood plus a bit of Gelderlander blood as well as gaits for dressage and scope for jumping. He has a hunter jump, for sure.
    Silver Creek Farms - home of Apiro & Validation
    Visit us on facebook!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Waterford, VA USA
    Posts
    4,973

    Default

    Unless the mare has 75% Gelders blood (which I don't think she has) I would not breed her to heavier stallions like Olivier or even Popeye unless you like the look of the older style horse.

    If she were mine I would breed her to either Johnson (Jazz x Flemmingh) who will refine and add movement for a dressage prospect, or somebody like Coconut Grove xx for jumping talent and refinement. There are many other options, of course, and you can PM me if you would like to discuss this further.

    Good luck!
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2002
    Location
    Redlands, CA
    Posts
    7,773

    Default

    What a cool mare.

    Working cows?

    Are you in the USA?



  11. #11
    RohanLtd Guest

    Default

    I'd had a thought of Coconut Grove, as he's KWPN approved and that means the baby could be KWPN. Same with Popeye K. I will look at Johnson again as well, I remember pausing over him a while ago and wanting to see video.

    Yes, we're in the US and she has worked cattle happily one day and shown in the 3'3" hunters the next. She's just a nice mare.

    K



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2009
    Posts
    285

    Default

    Great looking mare. I love Popeye k but I think you would get something too big. I would breed her for you. There is a good market for hunters and if you decided you love the baby you would be happy with a hunter. I'm not really up on the KWPN but I think that if the stallion is with a major registery you could get B papers. What about a refining stallion like Redwine, Escudo I not Escudo II. I also love Balou's, if the mare doesn't move like a hunter I'm not sure the baby would though. Good luck with your beautiful mare.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr. 27, 2007
    Posts
    172

    Default

    Ironman has had children show in dressage and eventing - Iron Falcon has done very well, and I know there have been many others. Ironman was initially bred to dressage mares because of his exceptional bloodlines. He has a fabulous temperment which gets passed on to all of his children. If you want more of the TB bloodlines (although Ironman does have 1/4 TB or so in him), you can't go wrong with Ironrule. He has excelled in his HB classes and is absolutely gorgeous under saddle. He does have his dad's temperment and the vets where he breeds can't believe that he is only 3 (4 in one month) because of his temperment and having only learned to breed this spring.

    Oops...sorry I thought Ironman was KWPN registered but I remembered he isn't.
    Last edited by diva4ever; Aug. 4, 2009 at 10:58 AM. Reason: not enough coffee, can't remember which registry is which
    Noteworthy: worthy of notice or attention; notable; remarkable. —Synonyms: distinguished, outstanding, significant. AKA Ike (aka Hurricane Mike).



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    Brookline, NH 03033
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    1,075

    Default

    My Johnson filly is big. She will be bigger than my mare for sure. I love her though and when I come to breeding her next year, it will be to a refining stallion for sure. The people in Holland tell me the same thing that he does not refine. He is a big boy too! I think he would be super nice with the mare though. She sounds very big with that size shoe though and bigger than him, so likely you will get smaller than her.

    Our Navarone's are a nice jumper and have been good all around with super characters for anyone. He just did his first Grand Prix dressage test this weekend and got 2nd place. He is also producing Grand Prix jumpers that are doing very well.

    If you like the size, you can also go with Farrington which will add more Gelderlander blood too. He is much like her and has 3 super gaits. Check out my filly by him this year. www.majesticgaits.com/emora.htm

    Schroeder (Sandro Hit - Escudo I) is refining. Not going to change the height as he is tall 17 hands. Puts on very leggy offspring and really good characters.

    Kathy
    Majestic Gaits-Dutch Warmbloods,#1 USEF Dressage Sporthorse Breeder. #1 KWPN-NA Jumpers.Standing Navarone,Schroeder,Dante MG.VDL Frozen. Approval KWPN Han OLD RPSI BWP Canadian SWANA sBs SF Holst



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul. 3, 2009
    Location
    delaware
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Take a look at Zarr. He would add some refinement,movement to die for and always chrome. My Zarr colt is outstanding.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 2003
    Location
    WA, Land of the damp Thongpend
    Posts
    2,451

    Default

    How about one of Tish's stallions. Both Grandsons of Lucky Boy, through Best of Luck.

    http://www.tishquirk.com/

    Lovely temperaments, great movers, amateur friendly. Nice hunter sires. Proven bloodlines.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    SE WI- Midwest
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    3,530

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    I think Vallado is a good consideration. I was very pleased with my foal he sired, out of my bigger Dutch mare. The colt was more refined in type and bone than the dam, strongly coupled, and very athletic in his movement.
    Here is my colt,
    http://sixpoundfarm.com/offerings_files/image298.jpg
    http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/images/Diablo.jpg

    and his dam:
    http://sixpoundfarm.com/060406002sm.JPG

    Vallado's sire, Now or Never M is has several other sons that are siring some very nice foals for the Hanoverian breed, there are quite a few in the upcoming Verden auction.

    Valentino Foals
    http://service.vit.de/pfauktion/pfli...=42874&id=2310
    http://service.vit.de/pfauktion/pfli...=42973&id=2310
    http://service.vit.de/pfauktion/pfli...=42981&id=2310
    http://service.vit.de/pfauktion/pfli...=43030&id=2310
    http://service.vit.de/pfauktion/pfli...=43084&id=2310
    http://service.vit.de/pfauktion/pfli...=43096&id=2310

    Uccello Foal
    http://service.vit.de/pfauktion/pfli...=43088&id=2310

    Toronto Foal
    http://service.vit.de/pfauktion/pfli...=43128&id=2310

    Now or Never M Mare:
    http://service.vit.de/pfauktion/pfli...=43179&id=2310

    Vallado is currently showing in the upper level Jumpers, and I think if he meets the performance requirements that Silver Creek may present him KWPN. They certainly had nice remarks about him when he was seen a couple years ago at a keuring. He certainly has a great mind, and jumps nicely.
    http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orde...CE440014&po=14
    http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orde...CE440013&po=13

    I wanted to add, Idocus is also a good suggestion, I have heard of and seen several nice hunter types by him.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 26, 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,098

    Default

    If you don't mind frozen, maybe look at the Team Nijhof Dutch Stallion ( www.team-nijhof.nl ), Verdi, by Quidam de Revel out of a Langraf I mare. He is a young stallion who is becoming popular over in Europe (I was told this by the BWP inspectors). I would guess that they now have his semen imported over here in the US -- contact Team Nijhof directly as they usually provide a LFG with frozen semen.

    I have seen him in person and he is a very lovely stallion -- I have a 2 year old colt by him out a more older style mare and the colt is certainly more refined then his dam. I am very pleased with the colt and I will breed back to Verdi in the future.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep. 26, 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
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    435

    Default

    I think an important question is what type of horse are you looking to breed? From the sounds of your posts, I would think that you are hoping to breed for jumpers?? If you give a bit more information about your aspirations for type of foal, I think people will be able to suggest better stallions that fit your breeding goals.
    If you are in fact looking for a jumper foal type, I'd second the Coconut Grove suggestion.
    Proud Momma:

    Imax - Fresstyle x Juventus x Rubinstein
    2014 - Sister to IMAX (hopefully)



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,119

    Default

    Zep is the dam sire of Robin Hood, the talented Jazz son that Sue Blinks rides. It appears that the Jazz/Ulft cross has made at least a few talented dressage horses and/or stallion prospects in the Netherlands, and so, just on pedigree, if you want a dressage horse, and since the mare has a good temperament, consider Jazz or a Jazz son. Nice mare with an interesting pedigree. And Anglo Arab in the mare line too! Very unique. Where did she come from? How about a photo of her Paint foal?



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