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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2000
    Location
    charlottesville, Va
    Posts
    2,614

    Default Need Coth wisdom re: horse tying up/back problem

    A friend of mine got a lovely young horse through me.He was sent to me to bring along and sell and she watched him go for MONTHS and finally decided to buy him from the owner. At the time of purchase I insisted that she have a through vet exam. She did. Horse had minor stuff but nothing to prevent her from buying him for her intended purposes. Fast forward to 2 years later. Horse has on again off again short strided left hind. Not LAME but no right. Horse is also extremely accident prone.
    They go to clinic and find two places in the neck with moderate arthritis. Also pelvic damage due to running full tilt into the side of the barn and whacking hip... which never caused him any serious lameness at the time. Horse has had SI injected and after two weeks went back to work and had some laser treatments. Horse shows sensitivity in the back over the last two days to the laser, so owner does not use it. Horse appears NQR Sat pm. Standing, walking stiffly. By Sunday am, walking is compromised. Horse BTW is eathing and drinking normally and is mentally alert. Which, for him, is mouthing everything in sight and generally being a silly pony. Appears to have some occasional muscle spasms at neck an back... owner thinks maybe tying up..calls vet. Horse steps under himself ok on turns...so not looking like EPM, but seems to have some oddness of gait in the front. Like picking up feet high and putting them down funny. Is not unsteady on his feet though...just walks like you put boots on him for the first time ever...you know what that looks like :-) Almost looks laminitic and has some mild sensitivity to hooftesters, but nothing really serious. Had his feet done last friday and he'd gotten long (everyone is growinf foot like crazy here!) but not awful. Doesnot have a strong digital pulse. Horse got IV banamine and is going to be on some Robaxin. but does anyone have a similar experience post SI injections?
    Shoulders back, hands down, leg ON!

    http://mellvinshouse.blogspot.com/



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    13,118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mellsmom View Post
    Fast forward to 2 years later. Horse has on again off again short strided left hind. Not LAME but no right. Horse is also extremely accident prone.
    They go to clinic and find two places in the neck with moderate arthritis... Horse appears NQR Sat pm. Standing, walking stiffly. By Sunday am, walking is compromised...Appears to have some occasional muscle spasms at neck an back... owner thinks maybe tying up..calls vet. Horse steps under himself ok on turns...so not looking like EPM, but seems to have some oddness of gait in the front. Like picking up feet high and putting them down funny. Is not unsteady on his feet though...just walks like you put boots on him for the first time ever...you know what that looks like :-)
    I'd have EPM, rabies, and spinal cord lesions on my list.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 5, 2003
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    1,275

    Default

    Definitely have not had this kind of response to SI injections. Don't know what it is, but does not sound like a healthy response to an SI injection.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2004
    Location
    Sergeantsville, NJ
    Posts
    2,542

    Default

    This sounds like acute EPSM, a metabolic disorder - do a search and go on www.ruralheritage.com. Our mare, also an accident-prone TB, had odd lamenesses, back pain, muscle spasms, discomfort in lifting feet, etc. Try switching immediately to an oil-based diet and see if it alleviates any of the symptoms. Our mare responded well enough initially so that we never even had the muscle biopsy to confirm the diagnosis. PM me if you need more info



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2000
    Location
    charlottesville, Va
    Posts
    2,614

    Default thanks

    This am's report is fairly good so far. Horse appeared to be walking normally when he went out last night. Owner will be out there this afternoon to do another look see. We also thought about Lyme, EPM...all of it. The barn where she boards has a horse with EPM, so they know about that. This guy didn't seem like an EPM case upon exam Sunday.....but you all know how that is. Owner is going to turn him out with Dr. Green Grass and take a wait and see approach.
    All of our horses are vaccinated religiously for Rabies, so that's a long shot.
    Blood test results should be back on Tuesday to see if it was tying up.... they took several vials so I have a feeling they will also look at the lyme titers. I pulled one recently on my gelding...his was so low they didn't even do the Western blot.
    Shoulders back, hands down, leg ON!

    http://mellvinshouse.blogspot.com/



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
    Posts
    7,320

    Default

    I would consider EPSM as well. What breed is he? I like Dr.Valberg's info on EPSM better - makes more sense to me that simply adding a lot of fat to the diet....

    http://www.re-leve.com/documents/Fee...edisorders.pdf
    http://www.re-leve.com/documents/Mus...ngtheknots.pdf



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2000
    Location
    charlottesville, Va
    Posts
    2,614

    Default He's a TB

    6 years old. He was on a high fat feed ato ne time, but too much rice bran or oil and he gets diarrhea. He also has a sensitive stomach and can be a wood chewer.
    Shoulders back, hands down, leg ON!

    http://mellvinshouse.blogspot.com/



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
    Posts
    7,320

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mellsmom View Post
    6 years old. He was on a high fat feed ato ne time, but too much rice bran or oil and he gets diarrhea. He also has a sensitive stomach and can be a wood chewer.
    I personally feel that if it is really EPSM sugar/starch reduction is key, much more so than adding a lot of fat. Horses were not meant to eat that much fat and I have seen feedback here too where it really did not work that well for many horses. Perhaps RER is another possibility too since he's TB?

    He could be suffering from ulcers too - sounds like he may need more forage.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2004
    Location
    Sergeantsville, NJ
    Posts
    2,542

    Default

    We started slowly with the mare - 1 oz. + hat stretcher pellets and upped it every few days. If she had diarrhea, we cut back. She is now getting 1 qt. hay stretcher, 1.5 qts. alfalfa pellets, a Vit. E/Selenium supplement, and 10 oz. of Cocosoya twice a day. She's competing successfully at Prelim and is moving up soon to Intermediate. It's worth a try - just go slow.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2008
    Posts
    1,068

    Default

    Earleir this year my horse came in from the field and looked very stiff and overall body sore - myself and coaches thought that maybe she had tied up even though she hadn't done any hard work and she was stiff all over her body not just the hind end. The vet came out and diagnosed sore feet (also drew blood and tested for tying up - came back negative) She had a stong digintal pulse in all four feet and she had had her feet trimmed 5 days earlier. She was off for two weeks to recover. I had shoes put on her and knock on wood there hasn't been a repeat.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2002
    Posts
    133

    Default

    BorntoRide, what do you mean "RER because of being TB"? Just not ringing a bell for me...
    Doubt if EPSM, but Vet not ruling out anything till blood work comes back, anything is possible, however his grass and hay is good quality and pretty much free choice for both. He gets only a handful of grain am + pm, only 1 lb total daily of SS textured Complete. What is also being looked at aside from his known, but fairly complicated back problem is the possibility of an underlying condition that is making soundness and recovery much more difficult. Thanks for ideas they are all being passed on to the vet.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2009
    Location
    The Frozen Tundra
    Posts
    671

    Default RER and EPSM/PSSM

    The difference between the two is very well explained on the re-leve site, under FAQ... I copied a bit of it below, but here is the link http://re-leve.com/faq.html

    "RER is characterized by a defect in the mechanism of muscle contraction... RER is a common cause of tying-up in Thoroughbred, Standardbred and Arabian horses. RER is most prevalent in young, nervous fillies...

    PSSM, on the other hand, is distinguished by accumulation of glycogen (a form of carbohydrate) and an abnormal form of polysaccharide (a complex carbohydrate) in muscle..."

    When my horse was diagnosed RER I found Dr. Valberg's webiste to have wonderful, scientific information.http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/RER_new/home.html
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2008
    Posts
    1,835

    Default

    I agree with the resident vet, check for EPM. But what's a spinal lesion?



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    13,118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Androcles View Post
    I agree with the resident vet, check for EPM. But what's a spinal lesion?
    General term for problems with the main wiring.
    In this case, I was wondering whether the arthritis in the cervical spine that had been mentioned might not be impinging on the cord.(Though hypermetric gait is more likely to be cerebellar than cervical spine)
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2008
    Posts
    168

    Default

    Could you have the vet out and do an exercise test. Pull baseline blood and then exercise the horse for 10-15mins at the trot. Then pull blood 1-1.5hrs later and compare. CK values and AST values should be normal at start and CK will increase on the 2nd test but AST should be normal. If CK is exceptionally high on 2nd then you know that something abnormal is going on muscularly. AST should not be raised that quickly in the 2nd as it takes 12 plus hours (if memory serves me right) after CK peaks to show its post exercise peak. If AST or CK is raised in the baseline you know there is some smoldering issue going on.

    Clair

    Independent Equine Nutritionist
    www.equilibrateequine.com
    info@equilibrateequine.com



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2005
    Location
    close to the Big Apple
    Posts
    3,271

    Default

    My horse has been through the ringer as far as trying to figure out why he was on again off again lame...hind end....he had a bone scan and was body sore.....
    Well we switched to an EPSM style diet, no oils, and he has done fabulous! My vet thought that doing the muscle biopsy would be a waste considering he could eat that type of diet anyway...it takes several months for it to correct itself but well worth it....
    How much rice bran were you giving when they got diahrrea? A feed very low in NSCs is important and has the hay been checked out too?
    If he has a sensitive belly, how about a nutrient buffer?
    Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
    Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
    "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"



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