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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2002
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    409

    Default Pony breeders - market for perlino welsh stallion??

    Need some input from people that breed/market ponies. I've been offered a really nice reg'd Welsh 12.2hh perlino stallion. Well bred I'm told though I'm no expert on Welsh breeding. I have a weakness for ponies I have to admit, and I've often toyed with the idea of doing a bit of pony breeding. With the guaranteed dilute color this guy would throw, coupled with his small size, looks and movement, I was thinking it might be fun to have him. Maybe breed my daughter some fancy larges for when she outgrows smalls I wasn't shopping for ponies, especially pony stallions lol, but someone who wants to buy some of my youngsters is offering him as part of the package with the cash. The pony is well broken, great mover and jumper, and will be going to some shows this summer/fall so will have some show record on him.

    Sooooo my concern is that is there actually any money in breeding ponies? Seems like the stud fees are quite low on some very fancy ponies I've searched out, and the youngstock doesn't seem to be priced very high either. My daughter shows smalls and I know how much a fancy packer type pony of any size can bring, but is there anyone out there that actually buys young unbroken ponies? I don't want to end up with a collection of ponies all needing breaking and showing before they are marketable.

    The current owners say they get a lot of inquiries from owners of TB and WB mares wanting to breed to this pony for dilute fancy larges. Do you think there is really much interest out there for that sort of stallion and what sort of stud fee range? Are there many other perlino or cremello Welsh stallions out there?

    I'm really intrigued by this little guy but also not sure I want two stallions and the extra workload! Opinions?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2006
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    3,373

    Default

    Well, what does he have going for him besides color? Conformation? Movement? Temperament? Pedigree? Accomplishments? Accomplishments of his get?

    Color should be the last consideration on this. It is going to entirely depend upon his quality as to whether or not he will attract mares.

    Yes, there are some double dilute Welsh out there at stud. Most of them are not of a type and pedigree that they are of interest to a large number of breeders.

    As I'm sure you know, you'll never get rich standing a stallion. Pony stallions are no exception.
    Family Partners Welsh Ponies - Home of Section B Welsh stallion *Wedderlie Mardi Gras LOM/AOE http://www.welshponies.com
    Click here to buy: A Guide To In Hand Showing of Your Welsh Pony



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2008
    Location
    Darrington, Washington
    Posts
    252

    Default

    The other thought is that at 12.2 hands, and breeding him to thbd and warmblood mares, unless the mares are 15 hands or under, the babies could go over...look alittle further into his breeding and see if there is any hight behind him. 12.3 or bigger...at that point breeding to "average" sizes mares will give you small horses...Or you beed him to 14.2 ponies and get nice mediums.....Do you have pictures of him???
    Gates Equestrian
    National Champion Dan Patch sire of USEF/USHJA winning ponies!
    [url]www.gateseqsmfponies.webs.com/



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2009
    Location
    Eastern Ontario, CND
    Posts
    2,191

    Default

    Surely you've met all the bratty little trillium kids with their parent's wallet in hand? There is a big market for childrens horses in Ontario and welshes seem to do particularily well. Even the duds do well as school horses.

    You will get some interest in him because of his colour alone, but of course he's got to have the conformation to back it up & I'd show him - BIG TIME. You may have a real money maker on your hands.

    Mr. Maple is a nwfl-pony stud around here, he's quite cute, his stud fee is only $250, but there is a rare-breed issue with that one; and at the end of the day he seems to have done quite well for himself.
    "For some people it's not enough to just be a horse's bum, you have to be sea biscuit's bum" -anon.
    Nes' Farm Blog ~ DesigNes.ca
    Need You Now Equine



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2008
    Location
    MI & FL
    Posts
    790

    Default

    Based on the response to the Cllynncopa dispersal sale, which I attended, I would have to say there seems to be a very large group of knowledgable welsh enthusiasts in Ontario. But I am of the camp that color alone will not (or should not) get you breedings-pedigree, performance (of him or his offspring if he has enough on the ground), and conformation are important factors to any knowledgable breeder. You want knowledgable people with quality mares to breed to your stallion, as the resulting foals have a much better chance of being quality animals, therefor making your stallion have a better reputation. People tend to blame and credit the stallion for an animal's shortcomings and for their good qualities, often forgetting that there is a mare involved, who will also add to the result. If he is a young unproven stallion, do you have enough quality mares to put to him yourself to prove what he can do? As a mare owner with no stallion myself, I can tell you what I look for is conformation, movement, child-friendly temperment, proven ability himself or the ability to produce excellent performers, pedigree, and lastly but still very important, marketability. I will take a chance on a young stallion if his pedigree and individual attributes impress me and he seems like he might be a good match for the mare.
    That being said, I am not sure of the market there in ON for unbroke ponies, but I am in MI, where the market is awful. I would plan on being prepared to hold onto some youngsters until you can get them started under saddle and packing some kids around. I think the market for young unstarted ponies is not great right now but I am hopeful that it will bounce back soon.
    There are lots of nice welsh stallions around. Just make sure that if you decide to take the chance on him, you plan on doing something to help him stand out from the crowd, besides his color, and you may have some success. Good luck and best wishes!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,589

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rideagoldenpony View Post
    Well, what does he have going for him besides color? Conformation? Movement? Temperament? Pedigree? Accomplishments? Accomplishments of his get?

    Color should be the last consideration on this. It is going to entirely depend upon his quality as to whether or not he will attract mares.

    Yes, there are some double dilute Welsh out there at stud. Most of them are not of a type and pedigree that they are of interest to a large number of breeders.

    As I'm sure you know, you'll never get rich standing a stallion. Pony stallions are no exception.
    I agree on all counts! Does he have anything else going for him besides the color? While it may look,to those on the outside, that the pony breeding end of things is easy and big bucks...it is really no different than any other market. You have to earn your stripes...and standing ANY stallion is never an easy process.

    As well, with most ponies predominantly being sold to the hunter market, double dilutes are a bit of a no no in the pony hunter world...only because they seem to have to prove themselves ten fold as compared to their single dilute and solid colored counterparts. The double dilute color can be very unforgiving sometimes.

    I also agree that while double dilutes are not common, it should be the last consideration when standing a stallion. If the color fad dies down a bit, he will still need to have all of the other stellar qualities a successful stallion must possess in order to continue attracting Mare Owners.

    Another thing to consider...there is already a very fancy cremello purebred Welsh stallion standing in Ontario at www.jmrwelshponies.com. He is very well bred, imported from the UK and stands 12.2 HH and would be direct competition with any double dilute pony stallion you stand in Ontario.
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI pony stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2008
    Location
    Darrington, Washington
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Thanks Tracy for saying that color is a no no in the hunter world, wasn't sure how to say it ...
    Gates Equestrian
    National Champion Dan Patch sire of USEF/USHJA winning ponies!
    [url]www.gateseqsmfponies.webs.com/



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
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    4,589

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by showponies View Post
    Thanks Tracy for saying that color is a no no in the hunter world, wasn't sure how to say it ...
    Ya know, and how sad that it IS like that and has to be like that (nothing wrong with covering him on solid mares though and getting a single dilute). I'm a hunter judge too, and as long as you put in the best trip and the horse has the best form, etc., I'll use you on my card whether you're brown, black or purple with pink polka dots. Unfortunately, the hunter ring is drenched in tradition and style. Even in the halter show ring, double dilutes have to do just that much better than the rest as their flaws are much easier to detect than the average bay with white socks, for example!
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI pony stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2005
    Location
    Floral City , Fl.
    Posts
    4,236

    Default

    I guess you are meaning COLOR as in the double dilute color, right? Because COLOR in the hunter ring is NOT a big No NO. color to me is: chestnut with white mane and tail, great colored palomino, a pinto (or paint, I dont know the difference) as in the wonderful Sam I Am, small pony hunter. Or, a bay with blaze and four white socks. Or that great buckskin color that I have seen often in the pony hunter ring. OR, again, how about the roan colored ponies that are so flashy. Those are COLORED ponies to me. Sorry, just had to say this!!! LOL.
    Sandy
    www.sugarbrook.com
    hunter/jumper ponies



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarbrook View Post
    I guess you are meaning COLOR as in the double dilute color, right? Because COLOR in the hunter ring is NOT a big No NO. color to me is: chestnut with white mane and tail, great colored palomino, a pinto (or paint, I dont know the difference) as in the wonderful Sam I Am, small pony hunter. Or, a bay with blaze and four white socks. Or that great buckskin color that I have seen often in the pony hunter ring. OR, again, how about the roan colored ponies that are so flashy. Those are COLORED ponies to me. Sorry, just had to say this!!! LOL.
    I took it to mean the double dilutes.

    I personally love the sabinos with four high socks and a blaze in my own program. I don't necessarily pick that when I'm judging though, as it really shouldn't matter once they get into the ring!
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI pony stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2005
    Location
    Floral City , Fl.
    Posts
    4,236

    Default

    OK. I understand.
    Sandy
    www.sugarbrook.com
    hunter/jumper ponies



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