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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 11, 2007
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    lexington KY
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    Default bit help.. what bit is she talking about!?

    So I am counting down the days until I can get on my big broken baby again. Right before he made it abundantly clear that he would rather kill himself than be sold (and he tried!) my trainer and I were discussing a bit change for him. Right now he goes in a big hollow loose ring snaffle. He likes it, but sometimes I just need some more leverage to get him back up under me (he is a baby and has figured out that if he plunges his face to the floor in between fences, I REALLY have a hard time getting him back up into my hand. He doesnt get quick and act naughty, just very long and not too pretty.

    My trainer suggested a bit she used on one of her horses a few years ago but could not remember the name. she said it was like a french link, but the middle link had sort of a hole in it. I have never seen anything like that before, have any of you???

    Also, what kind of bit would you guys suggest that would give me a little more control without overdoing anything? He doesnt need more brakes, just a little something extra there in case I need it. I have a while before I can bring my boy back into work, so I was hoping to set a game plan here and order a new bit so I have it to try when he is back in work again
    True love is taking their pain away and making it yours
    ~rest in peace momma (7/5/08)~
    ~rest in peace thomas (6/2/11)~



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2007
    Posts
    839

    Default

    Not sure, but there's infinite bits out there, and someone may have just drilled a hole in a french-link to get the desired effect.

    I also rode my big WB in a fat hollow-mouth for awhile and wondered why I was getting pulled all over the place. Switched to a thinner, heavier snaffle, and he went much better. I would do that first before going to a gimmick-y bit.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,278

    Default

    look at my helpful links pages on the sticky in dressage forum read page one and all links on there is a bit about bits and bitting and has working diagrams of each bit and each nose band etc

    but for me i would try a fulmar snaffle is kinder than a french link but make sure you have it complete with keepers as its not meant to be used without them



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2009
    Posts
    461

    Default

    From your description this is the only thing i can think of. I have no idea really what the action is of it but i am guessing this is what she's talking about.

    http://www.doversaddlery.com/broken-...1-01737/cn/86/

    On the other hand have you tried gymnastics with your boy? Sometimes they can really slow a horse down and bring them up off their front end. Also have you tried halting after every fence. Sometimes if you jump a fence and halt, jump another fence and halt, they get the idea that they need to jump and then come back and get lighter.

    Just some ideas that have helped me in the past. Hope this helps!
    "Be the change you want to see in the world."
    ~Mahatma Gandhi



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
    Location
    Lucama, NC
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    Default

    As otehrs have suggested, sometimes going with both a thinner mouthpiece as well as "fixed" rings, i.d. "D" or full cheeks instead of loose ring will give you just that little bit extra. I particularly like the curved mouth "D"s many of mine go in a french link "D", and a Dr. Bristol mouthpiece also is not severe but can help witha horse that wants to "pull down".



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2008
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    2,055

    Default Myler D or Myler Full Cheek w/ keepers

    I like these for ones that can lay in your hand. They are contoured in their shape and fit the mouth well; not harsh as a regular snaffle can be and point into the roof of the mouth when used.

    They are not gimmicky and I think you may find that is all the bit you need.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2009
    Posts
    81

    Default

    If she IS talking about a Segunda, it's not a bit I'd use on a baby. Try a fixed mouth Dee. I have great results with the curved mouth snaffle



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 11, 2007
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    lexington KY
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    Default

    thanks for the opinions!

    As for the Segunda, I dont think that is it. She described it more of an almost rounded french link with the center cut out. Although I have had no luck finding such thing anywhere. I am really trying to not "bit up" on him. He is 7 but was started late and still very green. I would like to stay as soft as possible yet still remain in control.

    We have been working on his issue for a while now. Its not every fence, but it also is not a rare occurrence. I started the halting thing just as a way to get him to come back to me after the fence, and that is when his "plunging" really took off. Gymnastics at this point are not going too well. He gets VERY flustered with jumps close together (heck even poles at times), then he just tries to take it all in once big leap, never resulting well. (its not striding, its my horse) It is another thing we are working on, but its taking time. And now with him out for the remainder of the summer, it will be back to square one with him. I feel like If I had something else in his mouth it would help in all of that so gymnastics could be safer for all involved.

    I had him in a plain D ring snaffle before, and I had a much happier horse in his "cunky" bit as I call it. But he has now developed this habit, so something has got to change. I would definitely like to keep him as soft as possible as far as bits go. Would you guys recommend just trying switching back to the thin D?
    True love is taking their pain away and making it yours
    ~rest in peace momma (7/5/08)~
    ~rest in peace thomas (6/2/11)~



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2000
    Location
    El Paso, TX
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    12,852

    Default

    I'd try a French Link snaffle for O/F. (And LEG)



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Posts
    2,607

    Default Watson?

    The Watson bits have a hole in the link and the side pieces too http://www.statelinetack.com/item/wa...fle/SLT901103/ -- They actually make several different bits with this mouthpiece --
    "I never mind if an adult uses safety stirrups." GM



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2004
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    227

    Default

    I used to have a bit that I lent to someone and never seen again. it's a french link Happy mouth. the middle piece looked like a black donut. It was a gift from europe and have never seen another. I would try a waterford D ring



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2004
    Posts
    913

    Default

    Easy there, bit gurus.....
    A "fat hollow mouth loose ring" is an exceptionally mild bit.
    I don't think the baby horse needs to go to a Sequnda, a Waterford, or a freakin' Mikmar!!
    sheesh
    As once told to me a hundred years ago, think of the bit as a bucket-handle. When you pick up a full bucket of water, how would the bit feel on your hand.
    The bit you are currently using would be quite comfortable to haul that bucket around. (partly why he tends to haul YOU around....)
    So what you want is something slightly thinner in the mouthpiece, and, yes, I would try for a Dee because it really does make a difference in the move-ability of the mouthpiece.
    Baby steps, folks....... One notch at a time.
    KD



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    15,409

    Default

    You mean a french link snaffle with an oval loop in the middle? It's a relatively long middle piece and I'm assuming that the hole in the center add a little "bite" to the tongue that your trainer may have liked.

    Assume your dude is weak behind and would get off his front end if he physically could. So choose the bit you like if your hands and training program are good. But, hate to say it, your bit problem may be a strengthening problem. It takes time to build up the hind end and coordination needed to stay light in the hand at all gaits, speeds and over fences. But if you put in that time now, you won't spend so much time later messing with bits.

    No bitting (sp?) thread is complete without some purist chiming in about the other end of the horse. Just consider this post that requirement met.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    242

    Default

    holy crap some of those bits are unbelieveable! That said, I don't think you'd need something as gimicky as that...a whistle mouth is what I first thought of but there isn't a hole just in the center of the french link--the holes are along the bit bars: http://www.equisearch.com/horses_rid...llery/whistle/

    Did she recommend something to make him salivate more? Cause if so, this is probably the bit she was talking about.
    BeesKnees
    Hunters should be galloping - George Morris



  15. #15
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    Jul. 13, 2009
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    Canada
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    Default

    Oh, I really also suggest taking a look at some of the myler bits--they have training levels associated with the bits and none of them seem to harsh or off the wall
    BeesKnees
    Hunters should be galloping - George Morris



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 11, 2007
    Location
    lexington KY
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    Default

    There was no mention of increased salivation. We have plenty of that already! (he is just one of those horses)

    He doesnt have the weakest behind I have ever seen, but its not overly developed either. He is pretty average especially considering how he had a lot of time off. He does use himself nicely when I have him under control. But he manages to "sneak out" often enough that it needs to be worked on for sure. I was hoping the bit issue would help me be able to keep him more in check to avoid getting on his forehand like that (it is his way of acting naughty. he knows once he gets heavy, I struggle for control, and he is capable of letting his devilish side leak out). All things we are working on. I love my baby .. I love my baby .. I love my baby lol I have to keep reminding myself that.
    True love is taking their pain away and making it yours
    ~rest in peace momma (7/5/08)~
    ~rest in peace thomas (6/2/11)~



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Posts
    2,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2DaPoint View Post
    Easy there, bit gurus.....
    A "fat hollow mouth loose ring" is an exceptionally mild bit.
    I don't think the baby horse needs to go to a Sequnda, a Waterford, or a freakin' Mikmar!!
    I agree with you, but I thought the OP's question was aimed as much at identifying the bit the trainer discussed as finding a new bit to try -- OP also said something about wanting more leverage which is why, in addition to the holes in the Watson mouthpiece, I wondered if that's what the trainer was thinking of --
    "I never mind if an adult uses safety stirrups." GM



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2004
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    Six-burgh baby!
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    Default

    I am a firm believer in "you bit the rider, not the horse". I've learned that a horse can be ridden in a french link snaffle by one rider and do really well where another rider needs a slow twist (short shank) pelham to get the same job done.

    I am not a believer in bitting up the horse for control in the sense that the horse needs the control. If the rider is using bit A but not getting the desired ride then the rider might need bit B. In this case, though I don't know what bit the trainer is referring to, it sounds like the OP definitely needs something else in her hands/horses mouth to help communicate the desired ride. That's what a bit is for after all isn't it? A means of communication? Better to put something in the horses mouth that is going to make communicating that much easier

    I don't know what the horses mouth is like but a waterford might work. You said he likes "chunky" bits so that might suit him well. It might be too much bit too so borrowing before buying (if possible) would be ideal. Then again, a french link might be enough bit too. It's hard to say. You might need to try a couple to find what works best for both of you. I woudn't get into some super funky bits as most likely what you are going through is one of the many greenie stages that will sort itself out as the rest of the training comes together but you definitely want something that's going to allow you to get the job done effectively so he doesn't learn bad habits - I'd go plain snaffle, with solid sides (D or full cheek even), french, or waterford.
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