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  1. #1
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    Default More hoof/trimming questions

    Can someone explain, in plain english, the relationship between bar growth and hoof wall distortion?

    Are quarter cracks and flares a result of improper trimming of the walls, or trimming too much? How does it relate to bar growth and trimming?

    Am I making any sense at all, cause right now I'm confused...
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  2. #2
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    Well, it's a lot like riding. Everything is about balance. When the foot is out of balance, cracks and flares occur. So can bar distortion. IMO bars do need to be trimmed; how much and how exactly depends greatly on other factors.

    Not much help, was that?!!! No hope for the telephone either, they hate it when I talk all night..
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by EqTrainer View Post
    Well, it's a lot like riding. Everything is about balance. When the foot is out of balance, cracks and flares occur. So can bar distortion. IMO bars do need to be trimmed; how much and how exactly depends greatly on other factors.

    Not much help, was that?!!! No hope for the telephone either, they hate it when I talk all night..
    Balance makes sense to me.

    I should be in bed, but alas, more fun searching "hoof trimming" on youtube! Tho it leaves me awfully confused...! Found one vid where the trimmer was having a great time digging concavity into the sole (and actually said "I'm creating concavity") and then another that said never, ever rasp the quarters!!
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  4. #4
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    We need to write a COTH book called Horse Trimming and Shoeing for Owners. It would just cover the basics of knowing when you are getting a good shoeing job and how you should work with your Farrier because I can tell you I spend a lot of nights surfing the web trying to figure out the same things you are.



  5. #5
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    Well what do you mean by hoof wall distortion? Quarter cracks and flares, or something else?
    Basically is your question, how much should the bars be trimmed?



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by imissvixen View Post
    We need to write a COTH book called Horse Trimming and Shoeing for Owners. It would just cover the basics of knowing when you are getting a good shoeing job and how you should work with your Farrier because I can tell you I spend a lot of nights surfing the web trying to figure out the same things you are.
    Not needed - see here http://www.easycareinc.com/Education...ok_hooves.aspx



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    Considering Triple T's [IMNTBCHO] deserved reputation as being on the lunatic fringe of the BUA movement, why would anyone in their right mind want to read, let alone implement anything he says or does?



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Androcles View Post
    Well what do you mean by hoof wall distortion? Quarter cracks and flares, or something else?
    Basically is your question, how much should the bars be trimmed?
    Yeah quarter cracks and flares and such..... I saw something last night about bar growth and how they can lay over and smash into the sole and actually LOOK like part of the sole (which as the case when my gelding came to me) and that sort of thing will cause flares and weakening of the hoof wall.

    missvixen I agree.... a little manual would be great... There are times where I can see things going on and have a sense that they are not right, but without the education/knowledge to back it up I'm always a bit afraid to jump on it.

    Haven't bought a rasp yet but getting close....
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashGordon View Post
    Can someone explain, in plain english, the relationship between bar growth and hoof wall distortion?
    Consider that the bars are [inward] extensions of the hoof wall, as the wall distorts, so do the bars.
    Are quarter cracks and flares a result of improper trimming of the walls, or trimming too much?
    Quarter cracks are the result of one or more of the following
    1. Incorrect Trimming
    2. Poor/Bad Conformation
    3. Injury, often by treading, to the coronary corium at the location of the crack.
    How does it relate to bar growth and trimming?
    It is part of the continuum.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashGordon View Post
    Yeah quarter cracks and flares and such..... I saw something last night about bar growth and how they can lay over and smash into the sole and actually LOOK like part of the sole (which as the case when my gelding came to me) and that sort of thing will cause flares and weakening of the hoof wall.
    I don't think that's true . I have seen flares on hooves without laid over bars and no flares on hooves with laid over bar.

    Quarter flares are usually the result of how the horse wears the hoof and how they are addressed when the horse gets trimmed. If they are not trimmed correctly, it will make them worse.

    The flares tend to occur on the side of the hoof that makes ground contact last. The more flaring is present, the more the horse possibly rolls the hoof from one side to the other when making ground contact. The less flaring you see, the more evenly a horse steps with its hoof.

    The flaring tends to be a direct result of how much the horse pulls the legs in towards the midline when moving or from other deviations, such as toeing in or out (not trim caused - bad trims can cause toeing in or out!)

    Have someone else lead your horse and watch your horse from the front to see how the affected hoof makes ground contact when he moves and you will see what I am saying



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    Have someone else lead your horse and watch your horse from the front to see how the affected hoof makes ground contact when he moves and you will see what I am saying
    I had an "aha!" moment recently on this by watching from behind, as well.

    One front leg turns outward a bit; I happened to be following the horse in from pasture, so that I was walking directly behind that leg (I was off to the opposite side of the horse and behind him). Was finally clear where that flare comes from, which I could not see by looking at the hoof in my hand.
    "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

    Spay and neuter. Please.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstrpony View Post
    I had an "aha!" moment recently on this by watching from behind, as well.

    One front leg turns outward a bit; I happened to be following the horse in from pasture, so that I was walking directly behind that leg (I was off to the opposite side of the horse and behind him). Was finally clear where that flare comes from, which I could not see by looking at the hoof in my hand.
    Yep, simple hoof mechanics



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashGordon View Post
    Yeah quarter cracks and flares and such..... I saw something last night about bar growth and how they can lay over and smash into the sole and actually LOOK like part of the sole (which as the case when my gelding came to me) and that sort of thing will cause flares and weakening of the hoof wall.

    missvixen I agree.... a little manual would be great... There are times where I can see things going on and have a sense that they are not right, but without the education/knowledge to back it up I'm always a bit afraid to jump on it.

    Haven't bought a rasp yet but getting close....
    I know you will hate hearing this - but all those problems will be solved by balancing the hoof correctly. You can't really pick out individual causesand say they lead to specific problems, IOW if you have X, you will have Y. An overlaid bar could or could not cause a flare or even a crack, depending on the leverage it causes as a result of the balance of the rest of the hoof. I guess what I'm saying is that rather than try and identify every cause and effects, just balance the hoof and the problems will take care of themselves. Then of course you have to decide/learn what a balanced hoof is. And of course not everyone will agree on this. But this is where individual understanding and judgement comes in, and basically what separates a good HCP from a bad one.



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Androcles View Post
    I know you will hate hearing this - but all those problems will be solved by balancing the hoof correctly. You can't really pick out individual causesand say they lead to specific problems, IOW if you have X, you will have Y. An overlaid bar could or could not cause a flare or even a crack, depending on the leverage it causes as a result of the balance of the rest of the hoof. I guess what I'm saying is that rather than try and identify every cause and effects, just balance the hoof and the problems will take care of themselves. Then of course you have to decide/learn what a balanced hoof is. And of course not everyone will agree on this. But this is where individual understanding and judgement comes in, and basically what separates a good HCP from a bad one.
    I know, I know... And I appreciate everyone's responses to my many trim related questions over the last year or so.

    I guess the many variations of "balance" and what it is, is what I find so confusing. I think I need to just trust my instincts....
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashGordon View Post
    I know, I know... And I appreciate everyone's responses to my many trim related questions over the last year or so.

    I guess the many variations of "balance" and what it is, is what I find so confusing. I think I need to just trust my instincts....
    Treat the horse.. not the theory. That is my motto and I'm sticking to it. It all depends on the horse and it's particular conformation. There are no hard and fast rules in anything related to horses, IE hooves. Good luck on your learning quest.
    If i'm posting on Coth, it's either raining so I can't ride or it's night time and I can't sleep.



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