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  1. #1
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    Default Setting Lines - How Long for 3'6+

    In the braiding thread I saw mention that at some local shows the lines are "only" set for a twelve foot step but that that was appropriate for smaller (2'6 and under) jumps. At what point do they start setting the lines for a bigger step? Is it for anything 3'6 and up? And for how big of a step are the set?

    On a side note I do wish they would set the lines for even a twelve foot step at our local shows. Here they're set for ten feet, even for the 3' divisions, and it's a pain if your horse has a normal to large stride. As has been mentioned before, it's one reason why it's sometimes worthwhile to pay the extra fees to go to the rated shows especially if that's where you hope to be headed anyway.



  2. #2
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    well, they don't set the stride any different, in so much that a horse's stride is measured at 12 feet, irregardless of the height of a fence. you'll see course designers play around with distances, but it's all predicated on that 12 foot stride.

    for most horses, you wouldn't want the distance based on a stride any longer than that, because it would encourage the average horse to run down to their fences, which could lead to flat jumping effort and lots of rails. at 3' and below, 12' strides are typically a little on the long side anyway. your unrated shows probably put the lower divisions at 10' to encourage softer, more collected jumping efforts, as you often have to boogey to make a line set at normal distances for such small jumps.



  3. #3

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    I design the courses for our association's shows, non rated, nothing over 2'9, and I set everything on the 12' stride.

    No one seems to have a problem getting around any more than they do at any other show, except maybe the very green horse or rider.
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  4. #4
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    Here you go. At the USEF level typically the the 3' is set for around a 12'6" stride. The 3'6" is set for about a 13' foot stride. I think the chart looks off for the two stride lines though. Maybe someone messed with it?

    http://www.mdccorporation.us/course/usef_distances.html



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by raave05 View Post
    well, they don't set the stride any different, in so much that a horse's stride is measured at 12 feet, irregardless of the height of a fence. you'll see course designers play around with distances, but it's all predicated on that 12 foot stride.
    Not so much. These days, the larger classes are usually set around 13', as LetsRide posted.

    We set at 12' for our schooling shows and have classes up to 3'6". At about 3' things begin to be a bit tight...even for the average strided horses. We tend to do a lot more bending lines, where striding is optional/dependent on track, for the larger stuff (they are jumper classes, so it makes sense).
    Last edited by RugBug; Jun. 30, 2009 at 02:17 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by raave05 View Post
    well, they don't set the stride any different, in so much that a horse's stride is measured at 12 feet, irregardless of the height of a fence. you'll see course designers play around with distances, but it's all predicated on that 12 foot stride.

    Ummm...a whole lot of things go into a course designer's decisions, like terrain (up or down hill), ring size, indoor or outdoor and HEIGHT OF THE FENCES.

    The idea is the arc of the horse over the fence should be, in a perfect world, the same size as the canter strides. Hence at 2'6" you would be anywhere between 11'6" and 12' depending on your ring size. At 3' you would be at that 12' to about 12'6" and at 3'6" you are at 13' to 13'6".

    A 12' stride at 3' may be the starting point in figuring out where to set things but it is not appropriate at 2' any more then it is at 3'6".

    And most local shows "set it and forget it" so they never have to move them, not to encourage any softer, more collected ride at 10'...a distance, have to say, I could not cram mine into and it's not that gifted in the step department. Plus it could encourage a leave out and you sure don't want that

    Most locals set at 12 because there is room to add one in the baby stuff and most should get it at 2'6"...although it will not ride as pretty as something just a smidge less at those heights unless you are in a big, outdoor ring.

    At rated shows with licensed designers, a 5 stride line in the 2'6" might be set at 70', in the 3' at 72' and in the 3'6" at 76' or so. So the answer to the OPs question is they go up after 3'. That is assuming the fence height is honest...if it's more "friendly", the lines need to come in a little. Otherwise the smaller jump in is going to leave them short trying to get out and make them fire to get out...not a pretty picture.
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  7. #7
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    If the ring is big enough, I expect to see 3'0 divisions set on the 12'3 to 12'6 step at an A/AA show, with a longer line being close to a 12'3 step (i.e., a 6 stride will be set at 86' rather than the 12'6 step of 87'6, but a 4 stride is almost always closer to the 12'6 step of 62'6 instead of 61'3. If the ring is small or the footing is bad, then 12-12'3 step is generally used just because you don't have time to get rockin' and rolling.

    I do remember riding in an indoor (big, thank heavens) where the 3'6 was set on the 13' step. That was a never say die, never say slow down ride to be sure.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  8. #8
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    And I remember doing the 2'6" set out on the 12+ distances. Fortunately for me, I was deliberately adding. I am sure there were some non-deliberate adds, too!
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  9. #9
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    yeah, unless you have some sort of monster strided super relaxed greenie, I'm not sure what you gain by doing the numbers on the 12 step at 2'6! Running down to nothing ain't no way to bring along a hunter prospect!
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midge View Post
    And I remember doing the 2'6" set out on the 12+ distances. Fortunately for me, I was deliberately adding. I am sure there were some non-deliberate adds, too!
    My personal favorite was the when the distances were all over the place and didn't match the course chart. The two outside lines were riding LONG, LONG, LONG even for the long strided horses, but the chart had them listed right on 12'. Most were adding and there was a crash or two when a 'Never-say-die' person got there on the half and the horse was like 'uh-uh.' I had a class in that ring and thankfully, didn't have to do either line. I was wringing my hands most of the day about the prospect of it on the short-strided horse and then I'd remember the course was mostly singles with a bending line or two.
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  11. #11
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    I did that to myself once. After the jrs were done and the 3'0 divisions went in, they adjusted the course accordingly. I came down to the ring for my 3'0 division and the course had a typo on it and still had two of the lines at the jr distance. Both were coming home and in since it was a small arena the jr numbers were conservative. It wasn't out of the realm for a 3'0 horse to do those numbers, just maybe not in this particular ring, and it sure looked odd against the numbers on the other lines. So I geared up for a never say die run for home on the first line home (figured the last line home would be right there). Uh, about the third time as it came up early, my brain calculated that perhaps it wasn't really as long as thought it was.

    But it sure was interesting to try and create two different rides in one course and still make it look slike I wanted to win a class.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  12. #12
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    When I went to a course design clinic with Linda Allen she said-
    - For a HUNTER course you adjust the distances as the fences go up
    - For a JUMPER course you keep the distances the same as the fences go up

    ETA that she was talking about 3' and up for jumpers. For smaller jumper courses you may want to adjust the distances because either the horses or the riders are probably greener.
    Last edited by Janet; Jun. 30, 2009 at 05:09 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    Uh, about the third time as it came up early, my brain calculated that perhaps it wasn't really as long as thought it was.
    I went to Tryon one year when the line along the side was a five on warmup day, a five the first day, and a six the second day. So, the second day I jump in, start kicking and that second jump was damn far away. I thought, 'Well, I am just not going to get there.' and steadied for the add. I was cantering through the turn, still completely confused about not getting there when I remembered it was a six. Duh.

    Not that I am incapable of both kicking and pulling inside the same line under normal circumstances...
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    When I went to a course design clinic with Linda Allen she said-
    - For a HUNTER course you adjust the distances as the fences go up
    - For a JUMPER course you keep the distances the same as the fences go up
    That makes sense.

    PS. LOVE Linda Allen! If you ever have the opportunity to ride/audit her clinics, drop everything you're doing that weekend and go!
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    When I went to a course design clinic with Linda Allen she said-
    - For a HUNTER course you adjust the distances as the fences go up
    - For a JUMPER course you keep the distances the same as the fences go up
    So eventer that I am (and Janet we both know that our courses are set based on where the jumps fall off the truck), please explain that comment to me.

    I am following the discussion about legthening the distances as the fences go up in the hunters. Not so much the compare and contrast from LA.

    ETA: As I clean the kitchen I think...Does this mean, as the jumps go up we expect jumpers to be adjustable? Is that what you/LA are getting at? Whereas hunters get on a step and stay on it, thus we have to adjust the distances to accommodate the arc and the constant step, with jumpers as the training and the height increases we expect them to adjust and deal with it?



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gry2Yng View Post
    So eventer that I am (and Janet we both know that our courses are set based on where the jumps fall off the truck), please explain that comment to me.

    I am following the discussion about legthening the distances as the fences go up in the hunters. Not so much the compare and contrast from LA.

    ETA: As I clean the kitchen I think...Does this mean, as the jumps go up we expect jumpers to be adjustable? Is that what you/LA are getting at? Whereas hunters get on a step and stay on it, thus we have to adjust the distances to accommodate the arc and the constant step, with jumpers as the training and the height increases we expect them to adjust and deal with it?
    You got it. Jumpers are SUPPOSED to adjust. Hunters are not.
    Last edited by Janet; Jun. 30, 2009 at 06:14 PM.
    Janet

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  17. #17
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    I wish I didn't have to sweep the kitchen floor in order to have my brain kick in.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gry2Yng View Post
    Does this mean, as the jumps go up we expect jumpers to be adjustable? Is that what you/LA are getting at? Whereas hunters get on a step and stay on it, thus we have to adjust the distances to accommodate the arc and the constant step, with jumpers as the training and the height increases we expect them to adjust and deal with it?
    Yes, jumpers are adjustable and the idea of a course that falls entirely on the step is not terribly challenging. Also as the jumps get bigger a jumper needs to get close to the base in order to deal with the ever increasing width.

    Hunters, on the other hand are judged purely on style and a flowing out of the pace jump (i.e., the "gap") and the bigger fences allows for a bigger arc and a more brisk pace, ergo we move the lines out.

    heh heh heh, we have an eventer at my barn (I caveat this to say that I do not judge eventers by this person any more than I judge jumpers by theat skeery speedball in the c/a jumpers). Anyway, we had a simple 72' line set up and I set it at 2'9 in and 3'0 going out. The first time through I put the add in and did a 6, then the next time I had a nice flowing one out of the turn and did a 5 with a perfect bit of steadying on step 4/5 to make for a nice oxer. I watched as she went in and I guess she thought the 5 would just be there. Scared the crap out of me with 5 + a leg.

    She did ask me if I got a 5 and how I did that, to which I explained a 5 on a 72' line is about as short as we work with, and generally the lines are a bit longer but our goal is to have a horse with a nice relaxed, forward pace so it works. She did look at me with a bit of superiority and told me if the jumps were bigger then it would work for eventers, to which I howled with laughter and said if the jumps were bigger for the hunters we would move them WAY out. But this one definitely marches to her own beat tha tmay not sync up with jumpers or eventers. In my world jumpers may not always do the five on a 3 foot 72' line for training purposes, but they are most certainly expected to do a 5 and a 6 at the rider's pleasure. It's not like trainers who have both hunters and jumpers change up the lines for each discipline.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    The idea is the arc of the horse over the fence should be, in a perfect world, the same size as the canter strides.
    Interesting point. In eventerland we general relate the "ideal arc" or bascule to the actual fence so that it describes a half circle. So, instead of looking at stride length we (or more actually "me" and the trainers I work with) would say the ideal take off is the same distance in front of a fence and the fence is high then lands the same distance behind the fence. So the horizontal measurement of the bascule (point take off to point of landing) should be twice the fence height. There is some adjustment for oxers as the horse needs to jump higher to get the width.

    On this principle I generally will walk a course by finding my *landing* spot then stride out from there to the take off spot of the next fence. Easier than math and remembering numbers.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    Yes, jumpers are adjustable and the idea of a course that falls entirely on the step is not terribly challenging. Also as the jumps get bigger a jumper needs to get close to the base in order to deal with the ever increasing width.

    Hunters, on the other hand are judged purely on style and a flowing out of the pace jump (i.e., the "gap") and the bigger fences allows for a bigger arc and a more brisk pace, ergo we move the lines out.

    heh heh heh, we have an eventer at my barn (I caveat this to say that I do not judge eventers by this person any more than I judge jumpers by theat skeery speedball in the c/a jumpers). Anyway, we had a simple 72' line set up and I set it at 2'9 in and 3'0 going out. The first time through I put the add in and did a 6, then the next time I had a nice flowing one out of the turn and did a 5 with a perfect bit of steadying on step 4/5 to make for a nice oxer. I watched as she went in and I guess she thought the 5 would just be there. Scared the crap out of me with 5 + a leg.

    She did ask me if I got a 5 and how I did that, to which I explained a 5 on a 72' line is about as short as we work with, and generally the lines are a bit longer but our goal is to have a horse with a nice relaxed, forward pace so it works. She did look at me with a bit of superiority and told me if the jumps were bigger then it would work for eventers, to which I howled with laughter and said if the jumps were bigger for the hunters we would move them WAY out. But this one definitely marches to her own beat tha tmay not sync up with jumpers or eventers. In my world jumpers may not always do the five on a 3 foot 72' line for training purposes, but they are most certainly expected to do a 5 and a 6 at the rider's pleasure. It's not like trainers who have both hunters and jumpers change up the lines for each discipline.
    LOL! I can say that I very much appreciate that you not judge all of us, based on your experience with one of us. I hope you appreciate that I try to do the same with the h/j ladies I meet. While the size/type of jump is relevant, tell me to do 5 then 6 then 4 on that 72' line and I will get it done for you. Make me do the 4 first and well...



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