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  1. #1
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    Default Combining divisions after the competition starts???

    I've been following the scores at St. John's HTs this weekend, and I am completely befuddled.

    http://eventingscores.com/stjohns/ht09/index.php

    As of the end of yesterday, after dressage & stadium, there were 3 Training divisions:

    Open Training
    Senior Training
    Junior Training

    I don't recall the #s for Sr & Jr, but there were only 3 in OT.

    Now there's just one big Training division.

    Disclaimer: I haven't spoken with anyone at the show, so I don't know if this is just a scoring funkiness (although I can't believe that StartBox Scoring could possibly be messed up this much) and there really are still 3 divisions, or if someone decided mid-competition to combine the divisions.

    Based on what appears to have happened, can they do that, according to the rules?
    Approved helmet: Every time; every ride.
    "When a sport gets to be predictable it ceases to be fun." - RAR's wise brother



  2. #2

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    If you put a disclaimer in the Omni - "divisions may be split or combined depending on numbers" - you're in the clear. It's pretty stupid to run a three person division if it can be helped.



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutie1 View Post
    If you put a disclaimer in the Omni - "divisions may be split or combined depending on numbers" - you're in the clear. It's pretty stupid to run a three person division if it can be helped.
    But *after* 2/3 of the event has been run?
    Approved helmet: Every time; every ride.
    "When a sport gets to be predictable it ceases to be fun." - RAR's wise brother



  4. #4
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    Actually, I think it would be okay so long as the dressage judge was the same and the tests were ridden on the same day (ie: same GENERAL conditions!). I'm not thinking it would be FAIR though Not sure what the
    rules say.
    Sarah in New Hampshire
    My Blog - Adventures in Eventing



  5. #5
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    Default

    According to someone who was there (but riding Novice, not Training), they "combined" the divisions for the purposes of reporting the results to the USEA - so that people could earn points.

    But they still announced & gave awards for the individual divisions.

    I'm sitting at home here in the A/C instead of driving home from the show, so I suppose I have no call to judge (not that THAT's going to stop me! )

    However...

    Approved helmet: Every time; every ride.
    "When a sport gets to be predictable it ceases to be fun." - RAR's wise brother



  6. #6
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    Default

    I am not sure I would consider 14 people a big division. That is average for Fair Hill. They usually split their division arbitrarily into 'A' and 'B' - of about 15 people per division. That is after the divisions are split into 'Horse' and 'Rider'.

    Most places around here do it this way, makes it simple. Split if you need to, and don't split if you don't.

    I don't think combining the divisions is a big deal, especially if you are just going to 14 riders in one division, from 3 in one and possibly 5 in another and 6 in another - probably makes everything easier on the organizers.

    I'm not sure how combining the divisions would help with points...unless someone wants to hurt a particular rider because a first would go to second or third when divisions are combined. It makes more sense the other way - split divisions in the middle so that more people can get more points from the USEA



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajierene View Post
    I am not sure I would consider 14 people a big division. That is average for Fair Hill. They usually split their division arbitrarily into 'A' and 'B' - of about 15 people per division. That is after the divisions are split into 'Horse' and 'Rider'.

    Most places around here do it this way, makes it simple. Split if you need to, and don't split if you don't.

    I don't think combining the divisions is a big deal, especially if you are just going to 14 riders in one division, from 3 in one and possibly 5 in another and 6 in another - probably makes everything easier on the organizers.

    I'm not sure how combining the divisions would help with points...unless someone wants to hurt a particular rider because a first would go to second or third when divisions are combined. It makes more sense the other way - split divisions in the middle so that more people can get more points from the USEA
    I don't think 14 is a big division, either. And I wouldn't have batted an eye if the division had started out at 14 - but the results were tallied separately for the first 2 phases, and then they combined them. (But still awarded ribbons to the original 3 divisions.) It just seems a little nefarious to me...

    Although maybe this goes along with the USEA's policy of "bumping" up the rankings of amateurs in an open division for the sake of qualification to the AECs:

    http://useventing.com/competitions.p...on=aec&id=1824


    Points depend on the total # of people in a division (for BN, N, & T, at least: http://useventing.com/competitions.p...derboard&id=71) So winning a division of 14 people would earn you more points than winning a division of 3.

    However, if you were 1st out of the 3 Open riders, but 3rd out of the 14 "Just Plain Training" riders, you'd lose a point.

    I don't recall the original division allocations, so I can't say for sure if people were disadvantaged, but the highest ranked Open rider ended up in 3rd, so she earned 4 pts instead of 5 pts.

    I think the 1st place finisher overall ended up gaining a point, the 2nd place overall stayed the same, 3rd place lost a point, 4th place lost a point...

    So perhaps someone's math wasn't as strong as it could have been!

    (ETA: clearly, I need to get a life. And stop spending time online picking nits instead of folding my laundry!!!)
    Approved helmet: Every time; every ride.
    "When a sport gets to be predictable it ceases to be fun." - RAR's wise brother



  8. #8
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    picking nits is always better than laundry folding and may in fact be an essential part of laundry folding....



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajierene View Post
    picking nits is always better than laundry folding and may in fact be an essential part of laundry folding....
    <G>

    I guess that's true, come to think of it - depending on where in the world one is folding laundry!

    (If it weren't 110 degrees out, I might be outside doing something about organizing my tack. But it is, so here I sit...)
    Approved helmet: Every time; every ride.
    "When a sport gets to be predictable it ceases to be fun." - RAR's wise brother



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