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  1. #1
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    Default Long Acting Penicillin

    Why is this not used in horses, or is it? Reading through my KV Vet catalog I see it can be used in all species BUT horses. Looking at the bottle in my fridge with the vet label over it, I peel the vet label off and it says "for use in beef cattle only".

    My vet prescribed it for my mare every other day. Tomorrow is the 3rd dose. She's still alive after using it, but is this something that some people do use? Or do I just discontinue and go pick up normal Pen? Oh my...this vet has done a lot of iffy things lately and there are not many around.
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



  2. #2
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    If it's benzathine penicillin, it's not used in horses because it's not absorbed well at all and therefore tends to be rather ineffective.



  3. #3
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    Default

    Is this benzathine Pen G? If so, I looked it up in my formulary and it says:

    "(list of a bunch of different trade names) Approved (most products) in horses and beef cattle. Not approved for horses intended for food use. Slaughter withdrawal: cattle = 30 days (at labeled doses). Actual species approvals and withdrawal times may vary with the actual product; refer to the label of the product you are using."

    Hopefully this helps! I hope your mare is getting better (I just finished reading your thread in the Breeding forum). Interesting case, but I'm sorry for you and your mare!

    ETA: It also says that serum levels can be very prolonged, but levels attained generally only exceed MIC's for the most susceptible streptococci, and the use of benzathine penicillin G should be limited to these infections when other penicillin therapy is impractical.

    Bottom line, sounds like it's safe but has a very limited spectrum of activity due to its absorption.



  4. #4
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    Default

    Doesn't reach therapeutic levels in the horse.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  5. #5
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    Default

    I have had Procaine Penicillin G prescribed several times for horses.

    If you have questions about any medication prescribed for your horse I strongly recommend that you contact your vet.... Especially regarding the administration of Procaine Penicillin G in horses as there are precautions that should be followed to administer it properly.
    Copyright ©2007-2012, Percheron X
    My creative work may be used on the COTH forum only.



  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Percheron X View Post
    If you have questions about any medication prescribed for your horse I strongly recommend that you contact your vet.... Especially regarding the administration of Procaine Penicillin G in horses as there are precautions that should be followed to administer it properly.
    Yeah but I'm questioning whether he really knows what he's doing in this case, there were a few things that he "missed" let's say and other vets have told me different. Things that were clear. Why would a vet prescribe a penicillin for an equine that clearly states 'beef cattle only'. I'm just glad that at worst it's just not as effective and not something that will kill her. She's on IM and uterine infused gentamicin also.
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aspenlucas View Post
    Yeah but I'm questioning whether he really knows what he's doing in this case, there were a few things that he "missed" let's say and other vets have told me different. Things that were clear. Why would a vet prescribe a penicillin for an equine that clearly states 'beef cattle only'. I'm just glad that at worst it's just not as effective and not something that will kill her. She's on IM and uterine infused gentamicin also.
    A good portion of the medications used in equine practice are not labeled for use in horses. THis is extra-label use and without it we would really have our hands tied....I wouldn't discount his advice on that alone... But he should know which meds to use and how to dose them if he's using them off label....
    Turn off the computer and go ride!



  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aspenlucas View Post
    Yeah but I'm questioning whether he really knows what he's doing in this case, there were a few things that he "missed" let's say and other vets have told me different. Things that were clear. Why would a vet prescribe a penicillin for an equine that clearly states 'beef cattle only'. I'm just glad that at worst it's just not as effective and not something that will kill her. She's on IM and uterine infused gentamicin also.
    If it were me in your situation I would find a new vet that I could trust and communicate with....

    I found this information online, I hope it's helpful.....

    http://www.justanswer.com/questions/...procaine-given

    "For respiratory tract infections that I think will respond to procaine penicillin G (PPG) I usually advise a minimum of 5 consecutive days treatment. I like to treat at least 2 days beyond the point at which the problem appears to be resolved (no more nasal discharge, normal rectal temperature, normal appetite). This often results in a 7 day course of treatment. Never stop/restart therapy.

    The minimum dose for PPG is 3cc per 100# bodyweight deep in the muscle twice daily. This dose and schedule is different from what is listed on the product label, but the label recommendations are calculated on the assumption that the animal might enter the human food chain, and are too small for too short a time.

    Never use the "long acting" benzethine penicillin preparations."
    Copyright ©2007-2012, Percheron X
    My creative work may be used on the COTH forum only.



  9. #9
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    Default

    Which penicillin are you using? Penicillin comes in many forms with varying half lives. Plain penicillin G is very short acting and is usually given IV multiple times per day. Procaine penicillin is the penicillin that I have seen given intramuscularly to horses. It is in the system several days, but huge amounts need to be given every day or twice a day. Benzathine penicillin is very long acting, but does not provide very high penicillin levels that are needed to treat most infections. It used to be given once a month to prevent strep infections in people with a history of rheumatic fever. Benzathine penicillin can also be mixed with procaine penicillin to give higher, longer lasting, blood levels for strep infections in kids who refuse to take oral medicine.

    Read your bottle to see which penicillin you have. Then, google it. Next, call your vet with your questions.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKB View Post
    Which penicillin are you using?
    Long acting Benzathine penicillin, labeled for beef cattle. She had it on Wed, Fri and Sun, then tomorrow and Thurs. He told me ONLY the neck. However her neck is so sore she can't reach down to eat. So I'm tempted to do the hind end. I've only ever done pen in the hind end. Thoughts? Seriously calling the vet will do no good, when I'm questioning 1/2 of what he is telling me.
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



  11. #11
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    It would seem as if you are making your horse sore to no avail, if this kind of penicillin does not reach theraputic levels in equines. I would get a different antibiotic, and perhaps a new vet asap
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    It would seem as if you are making your horse sore to no avail, if this kind of penicillin does not reach theraputic levels in equines. I would get a different antibiotic, and perhaps a new vet asap
    Exactly.

    Any bacteria that was susceptible to the miniscule levels of pen produced from the benzathine form, would most likely be susceptible to oral trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole. Much nicer to use.

    OP, what is the indication for the antibiotic? With a vet as clueless as this, one should also question whether an infection has been correctly diagnosed.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schiffon View Post
    Exactly.
    OP, what is the indication for the antibiotic? With a vet as clueless as this, one should also question whether an infection has been correctly diagnosed.
    Well I have SMZ tabs too, but she is not on them. She was on 20 CC of GentaMax IM per day and 20 CC of Benz Pen every other day. So tomorrow would be the fourth dose. Mare foaled last Monday an empty amniotic sac and placenta, she was outside, so questions remain a-did she just foal fluid, b- did a predator take the foal, c- was the foal stolen, or d-is it in her abdomen.

    Almost all vets agree that if it was D- she should have severe peritonitis by now. Her uterus had so much guck in it. We did 6 days of infusions of 20 CC gentamicin and 100 CC sterile saline.

    I am in a remote area. There is another equine vet in my area that is off on vacation. My only option is a long haul trailering. So far the mare's temp has stayed from 99-100.5 since last Tues night when it was it's highest. All laminitis symptoms have gone away.

    Now I could drive to TSC and get appropriate horse penicillin. I've just never been one to use it without a vet.
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



  14. #14
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    Default

    I hate that for you! Hopefully it will just be ineffective and not cause any issues! I drive 3 hours to get to the vet I like....and the closest vet is an hour and a half away, so I know how you feel.
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  15. #15
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    Default

    Since she has had 7 days of "therapy" and hasn't gotten worse, I'd be inclined to not add new things now and would consider stopping the antibiotics, if it were my horse. The uterine flushes were probably the important part anyway.

    FYI, the dose on the label of the Procaine Penicillin you can buy at the coop is too low. Drives my husband (equine vet) NUTS when someone has used that dose for a few days on their own and he is called for lack of response. Puts him in the difficult situation of deciding between increasing the Procaine Pen dose to the proper one (risking that perhaps the infection is resistant to Pen and a different drug is needed) or pulling out the big guns like Naxcel (risking using this valuable antibiotic unnecessarily).



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schiffon View Post
    Since she has had 7 days of "therapy" and hasn't gotten worse, I'd be inclined to not add new things now and would consider stopping the antibiotics, if it were my horse. The uterine flushes were probably the important part anyway.
    I'm going to call the vet, in light of the fact I got the infusions in her (not flushes) and the penicillin is making her VERY sore, I'm going to see what he recommends.
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



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