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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2000
    Location
    Chantilly,va.
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    10,843

    Question the goal?

    Is the goal to revent injuries or prevent falls?
    breeder of Mercury!

    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans



  2. #122
    Join Date
    Jun. 25, 2004
    Location
    Carolinas
    Posts
    4,572

    Default

    First I hope both horse and rider make a full recovery.

    This is an observation of the rider's fall - the rider flew thru the air & hit the ground head first. I guess I have had too many falls so now know to try to move away from the horse and do a tuck & roll if possible. We know falls will happen so we must be schooled in how to handle them. I am reading a book by Pat Symthe about jumping during the 1900's - these horrible falls happened then. A 'possible' reason for more deaths today is how the rider handles the fall. Is the average rider aware of their own body in relation to the horse & the ground?
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  3. #123
    Join Date
    Dec. 6, 2000
    Location
    SE Mass
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    4,134

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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    First I hope both horse and rider make a full recovery.

    This is an observation of the rider's fall - the rider flew thru the air & hit the ground head first. I guess I have had too many falls so now know to try to move away from the horse and do a tuck & roll if possible. We know falls will happen so we must be schooled in how to handle them. I am reading a book by Pat Symthe about jumping during the 1900's - these horrible falls happened then. A 'possible' reason for more deaths today is how the rider handles the fall. Is the average rider aware of their own body in relation to the horse & the ground?
    Funny you mention that. That was my thought too. I was just too chicken to say it being a LL rider. I am older, but I know how to tuck and roll. Learned it in gym, and perfected it through many falls.



  4. #124
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2000
    Location
    passepartout
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    10,012

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    You can do a perfect tuck-and-roll and still get seriously hurt. Sometimes the forces are just in excess of what you can deal with and escape unscathed. Or the fall happens faster than you can react.

    I suspect that's what we're seeing in the photos.



  5. #125
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    575

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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    First I hope both horse and rider make a full recovery.

    This is an observation of the rider's fall - the rider flew thru the air & hit the ground head first. I guess I have had too many falls so now know to try to move away from the horse and do a tuck & roll if possible. We know falls will happen so we must be schooled in how to handle them. I am reading a book by Pat Symthe about jumping during the 1900's - these horrible falls happened then. A 'possible' reason for more deaths today is how the rider handles the fall. Is the average rider aware of their own body in relation to the horse & the ground?
    My bet is the falls happen too fast for people to react. The physics involved in the horse hitting a solid obstacle and rotating are total different then when one is bucking or sliding into a show jump type fence.



  6. #126
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    5,160

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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenDogs View Post
    You can't have separate rules for adults based solely upon their age (i.e. you can't tell a 22 year old that he or she cannot compete at a certain level, even though he/she has fulfilled all of the requirements, simply because they are 22 and not 30 years old). That is age discrimination.
    Just a little FYI, in a legal sense, age discrimination does not exist if you are under 40. It is perfectly legal to tell someone they are too young to do something, you just can't tell them they are too OLD to do something.



  7. #127
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2008
    Posts
    1,807

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildlifer View Post
    Just a little FYI, in a legal sense, age discrimination does not exist if you are under 40. It is perfectly legal to tell someone they are too young to do something, you just can't tell them they are too OLD to do something.
    Thanks for the clarification .

    I could be wrong (not a legal eagle), but I think if we imposed different qualification standards for younger adult riders (say age 25 or younger) based solely upon age, I believe it would be immediately challenged in court and struck down, particularly if there are no stats to back up such a policy. It just takes one pissed off rider on an Olympic track being denied access and presto....lawsuit.

    Here is how I see the case: a young adult rider (say age 22) with multiple years of experience and a good safety record is denied access to the upper levels because of this rule. He/she is able to show that older riders are able to compete with less experience and a lesser safety record, simply because they are older. I don't see a court upholding such a rule, and I am guessing USEF, FEI, USOC attorneys would agree.

    But hey, that's my opinion.

    I guess you could get around such a legal challenge by restricting Eventing to only riders 18 years or older so that no one can even start at Novice before then, but again, we are on a tangent that has no evidence that it would improve safety.

    LLDM: Thank you for your last post on your beliefs on the NAYR program. That actually clarified in my mind where you were coming from. Again IMO, I don't see age restrictions as the answer -- I see disposing of U.S. team leadership that creates the pressure to excel by a certain age or lose consideration for international team selection (CMP and crew) as the answer.

    You are absolutely correct that most Olympic event riders peak in their... ahem.... more senior year. The pressure to move up before aging out is a symptom of bad team leadership and bad parenting, not necessarily the program itself. Mr. Phillips and crew has made all kinds or spoken and unspoken rules about those that will be considered for team selection that don't exactly promote good decision making. Many riders (and parents) are desperate for team consideration and will do anything to get it.



  8. #128
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2003
    Location
    Dolores,CO. Proud to be a Kraut
    Posts
    2,148

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    I used to do Judo, had a black belt, now I got a gut belt, but anyhow, X-C accidents happen so incrdible fast and are so often rather violent, that tucking and rolling never happens. I bet the young lady never new what happened till she hit the ground. Consider this 0.3 second for the vest to inflate and when she hits head on the vest is not jet fully inflated.

    The age limit, why is it that search and rescue in the Rockies deals mostly with thirtyish people. I do not think that the younger riders are a larger risk factor and as Tuppy pointed out if you grow up with horses and horses are a way of living than you are in that direction well seasoned with 18, probably more seasoned than a amatoer with 30 years of experiance.

    Last year when I was at the Young Riders, I did not see a single ride were I felt that this is kinde bad. Those kids rode exceptionaly well and were not taking any risks.
    Opposit, I think the adult Pros under business pressure are taking the greatest risks.
    That I have no use for them, does not mean, that I don't know them and don't know how to use them.
    Caveman extraordinair



  9. #129
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2009
    Posts
    121

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    I'm an excellent faller, having perfected the tuck and role in more than a few high risk sports. The one rotational horse fall I had was too fast for me to know it was happening, let alone to react. I was show jumping and the horse saw a liverpool beneath him and failed to put down his landing gear - just kept rotating through his bascule and landed on his head then his back. thankfully beside me.



  10. #130
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2000
    Location
    Chantilly,va.
    Posts
    10,843

    Question cause of fall?

    Is the cause of the fall known? Has it been proven that she rode him "too deep?" Is this the result of her being under 25?Did not a two-time Olympic gold medalist do the same thing at Jersey Fresh? Did he need more experience?
    breeder of Mercury!

    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans



  11. #131
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2000
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    Chantilly,va.
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    Question age of Gold medalists?

    Has Anyone calculated an age range , plus median age for Olympic gold medalists? I would guess somewhere between 21 and 45; any one want to guess?
    breeder of Mercury!

    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans



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