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  1. #1
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    Default North American Super Duper Multi-discipline Amalgamated Competition Association

    This is a thread for brainstorming. No idea is too silly or wrong!

    I could probably figure out how to put together a website that would collect the contact information of all the people interested in starting and supporting such an organization. It would be a way to get a sense of the number of people interested/the base of support. I am sure there is someone out there who would be more efficient than me - SPEAK UP!

    IF we created an organization called the North American Combined Training Association (NACTA) what would its mission be?

    The welfare of the horse.
    The support of the Classic format.
    The support of safe, educational, confidence building course design.

    If you could create the perfect organization, what would it do, what wouldn't it do? How would it communicate to its members?

    Start throwing ideas up against the wall. Let's see what sticks.
    Last edited by Gry2Yng; Jun. 4, 2009 at 03:46 PM.



  2. #2
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    Default First one

    FEI shall become known as "the organization that cannot be named" until we find our Harry Potter.



  3. #3
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    Default

    need to think on the rest, but honestly... i *HATE* using "Combined Training" in the name. Loved it when everyone went to eventing and haven't looked back. Yes, you get "what's that?" kind of questions on eventing, but even moreso IMHO when you call it Combined Training. In addition, I don't think CT has the right connotations. It sounds like something you do to train for something else... and thus not important in and of itself.

    My 2 cents... devalued for the times of course.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  4. #4
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    Default

    I guess, because I grew up when we were the United States Combined Training Association, I like going back to the USCTA.

    To me, combined training IS the essence of this sport. It is dressage, which trained the horse to compete in battle, combined with cross country, which showed that the horse could go for long distances, over any obstacle in it's way and stadium jumping, which showed that the horse had enough stamina to continue through battle. All of these, combined, made up the tests for the complete horse and horseman.

    If that did not make a bit of sense, please excuse me. I have been on cold and flu meds for about 10 days. I think that my brain is scrambled.



  5. #5
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    Default

    I'm in, I like Combined Training as well. Are there going to be lower levels too? Why does anyone need the FEI? When I did CTR I belonged to ECTRA and we had our own year end awards sanctioned rides etc, is this what you're thinking of something like that? We run our own show so to speak.
    RIP Kelly 1977-2007 "Wither thou goest, so shall I"

    "To tilt when you should withdraw is Knightly too."



  6. #6
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    Default

    I would think much more emphasis on lower levels. Might not go above prelim?


    Asking for ideas. Not a fully formed concept. Also not necessarily taking about an overthrow. Just a place to get ideas as to what is important to those of us who have no desire to ever compete internationally or interact with the FEI. The question is just this...

    If you had an organization that represented EXACTLY your interests, what would that organization be and do?



  7. #7
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    May. 23, 2006
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    I can see this working. As an organization that supports, through its members, those events that embrace the vision of those members. The members would subcribe those horse trials that meet thier needs, volunteer at those trials, promote those trials. These could be both events that are USEA recognized as well as those who are not...jumping branch. Lets show the organizers that we are there to support those efforts. Voting with entries and time will make those events who do not share the vision of a fair, fun, and safe sport either conform or go out of business. Those that choose to foster the vision of the many (and not the few) will prosper.
    A forum/dedicated web page that discusses those events would be of benefit to those on board. A horse trials rating, networking for products and services, shared transportation, shared housing at events, open stalls available near events...ect

    This should be an organization with shared views, ideas, goals and rewards. It can certainly operate on its own whilst still embracing the sport of eventing. Year end awards for horses, riders, events etc would be a great way to foster a united stand to take back the sport at the training levels.

    I would be interested in fleshing this out further and have some time to devote to getting something like this off the ground.

    As I said, this organization would be indepedent and need not be endorsed by the USEA...hell who cares if it does not like it. I would be happy to support the USEA with those events that it recognizes...that embrace the vision of the NACTA. The others...no.
    Last edited by snoopy; Jun. 3, 2009 at 05:14 PM.



  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gry2Yng View Post
    FEI shall become known as "the organization that cannot be named" until we find our Harry Potter.


    I don't have any constructive input at the moment (except to say I agree with snoopy), but that seriously imperiled my Coke...
    Proud member of the EDRF



  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy View Post
    I would be interested in fleshing this out further and have some time to devote to getting something like this off the ground.

    .
    My first criteria/priority would be to adopt a set of standards as to what is appropriate for each level. What is educational, confidence building? Dressage test, fence size/question, speed, distance, etc. To me, it doesn't matter what happens internationally. Horses are generally safe and capable of recovering from a mistake at either 2'6", 3', 3'6" or beyond. I don't care about beyond. If it can jump 3'6" and still save my ass on occasion that is a preliminary horse. So, I have my preliminary xc horse. Now how much time and energy can I spend to make him competitive in the other two phases without compromising his xc ability and safety? The amount the average rider with the average amount of time could spend on the other two phases is the correct test. The rider with the above average talent and dedication should win. The average should feel satisfied and the below average should feel unprepared but not unsafe. They have the choice to drop down a level or work harder. The above average rider has the option to move up a level or continue to kick ass. We have to learn to accept that some riders will win and win and win. Eventually they have to start over because that is the nature of the sport.

    I think Jimmy had a nice table in PH a while back. Maybe, with his permission we start there.



  10. #10
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    Default

    I may be out on a limb here, but I'd say we can leverage what we're good at here. CMP is always banging on about us nameless faceless know-it-alls behind our computer screens - as though very fast communication were a negative. I don't believe it is. And as a named and faced know-nothing numpty, I would like to think that we could minimise on the worrying about the name of the organisation, and the rule book ... and leverage word of mouth and camaraderie more effectively.

    Why not ... why not have the lady from the previous thread have her courses known to be easy good first steps-up ? Why not have another course designer want to include a slightly more complex thingy at some level ... why not have every course designer able to come onto a board (say, ferinstance, this one) and say, 'this years XXX is really simple - the BN stadium is basically a hunter course at 2ft5 and all the XC jumps are logs and coops' ... or.... 'we're trying out a XXX jump for the first time at training level, and there will be an option around it' or whatever.

    I'm desperate to see more schooling events, more baby lower level events (say, somewhere between x-poles, and maxed out BN oxers which scare my poor pony).



  11. #11
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    Default USEA current direction?

    Don`t we already have a perfectly good USEA that should be doing all of this? Are they so misdirected that we need a brand new organization?

    Yes, I`m cynical as hell about USEF, but is that also true of USEA? Please tell me it ain`t so!!

    If there`s trouble at USEA, it`s trouble forced on them by USEF, that`s my guess.

    I always thought USEF wore the black hats, USEA the white ones. Am I wrong?



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by denny View Post
    Don`t we already have a perfectly good USEA that should be doing all of this? Are they so misdirected that we need a brand new organization?

    Yes, I`m cynical as hell about USEF, but is that also true of USEA? Please tell me it ain`t so!!

    If there`s trouble at USEA, it`s trouble forced on them by USEF, that`s my guess.

    I always thought USEF wore the black hats, USEA the white ones. Am I wrong?
    I agree Denny, lets fix what maybe broken, dont start from the bottom all over again
    Cindy

    Make any mistakes going forward!



  13. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gry2Yng View Post
    FEI shall become known as "the organization that cannot be named" until we find our Harry Potter.
    Or "That which we do not speak of" like in The Village



  14. #14
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    Default

    USEA may be handicapped by the structure of its relationship with USEF, but I agree with Denny that it's fundamentally a good, strong organization that whole-heartedly cares about the very priorities Gry just espoused. USEA has stood as firmly as it possibly can behind both promoting the welfare of the horse and in favor of the classic format, and USEA president Kevin Baumgardner is an enormous supporter of the classic format and of the lower levels and the amateur-rider (he is one himself). Rather than try to splinter off, I'd rather see time/energy spent lobbying the USEF Eventing Technical Committee, which is where alot of these changes/cough-boneheaded kneejerk rules-cough are made and trying to get more course designers and a stronger set of standards for what is proper and what is not at each level.



  15. #15
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    There is NOTHING in my posts that says anything about overthrowing or replacing the USEA. I was trying to float the idea that there might be a group of like minded people who can generate ideas and support each other. Not sure how the thought is any different than the Professional Riders Association. Perhaps choice of name made that implication. My intent was to show no exclusion for AA's and professionals and include Canadians, not to indicate that we would over throw the USEA.



  16. #16
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    Whether splitting off or preferably? adding a subset to the existing USEA:

    Do not have solid fences in cross country (think the image of war without it's guilt) and penalties for horses that crash through the safe fences (like paintball you get disqualified for a deadly hit). Reduce the technical mind-blowing fences that stun the horses and replace with forward riding fences that entice. Get the fatality level down to -at or below straight Dressage, Show Jumping or Endurance levels. No excuses.

    Return the steeplechase and roads and tracks and get with some endurance folks to plan a venue and realistic vet checks, routing, etc. Stick to the 3-day format with a real endurance + CC day test. Use a modified endurance route, do laps like a car race if needed, but you've got to keep the endurance aspect in or it devolves to Dressage, Jump Race of Death, and Show Jumping, and that is just not what the sport is or was supposed to be. No specialist horse ought to be able to win due to their specialty aptitude alone.

    One horse, one rider. At most two horses per rider, no matter the level. If it is about rider and horse working together, strings of horses are not in sync with that premise. Also eliminates the 'been over the course on horseback' advantage a multiple rider might have.

    Fund a marketing /PR arm and emphasize the welfare of the horse, exhilaration factor, all the best points of the sport. Fund and follow recommendations for a data arm that covers medical/course design/dangerous riders/etc., etc. and make results available to the PR arm and membership. On that note, might take a lesson from NASCAR and teach participants in the spotlight how to thank the fans, spectators, course designer, venue sponsors, their trainer their horse, etc.

    How to get any of that done?



  17. #17
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    My wish is for an organization that recognizes the needs of those who
    are out to have FUN doing eventing, whether they want to be
    competitive or not. The levels I would like to see would start
    much lower than BN, such as

    Level US height Canadian height

    Elementary 12" 30 cm
    Starter 18" 45 cm
    Introductory 24" 60 cm
    Beginner Nov 30" 75 cm
    Novice 36" 90 cm
    Training 42" 105 cm
    Preliminary 48" 120 cm

    The Elementary might also have a split for solo and with leader.
    The Training and Preliminary might have a special "All phases"
    competition which would have long format endurance phase.

    I noted that there is quite a bit of enthusiasm for very low level
    competition expressed in the thread about a very small cross
    country course.

    I would also like to see some attention in the rules to size of the
    enrollment in competition. Something like the way hunter shows
    are ranked as A, B, or C; I would like to see some requirement
    concessions for shows which will have fewer than 50 riders, those
    with up to 100 competitors, and then larger competitions. It just
    is not practical or affordable to supply all the requirements at a
    smaller competition. Things like farriers, vets, EMTs, food service,
    announcers, and more just are not cheap to budget and they just
    push the cost to competitors higher until few want to come play.
    Last edited by Robin@DHH; Jun. 4, 2009 at 09:12 PM.
    Robin from Dancing Horse Hill
    Elmwood, Wisconsin



  18. #18
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GotSpots View Post
    USEA may be handicapped by the structure of its relationship with USEF, but I agree with Denny that it's fundamentally a good, strong organization that whole-heartedly cares about the very priorities Gry just espoused. USEA has stood as firmly as it possibly can behind both promoting the welfare of the horse and in favor of the classic format, and USEA president Kevin Baumgardner is an enormous supporter of the classic format and of the lower levels and the amateur-rider (he is one himself). Rather than try to splinter off, I'd rather see time/energy spent lobbying the USEF Eventing Technical Committee, which is where alot of these changes/cough-boneheaded kneejerk rules-cough are made and trying to get more course designers and a stronger set of standards for what is proper and what is not at each level.
    I agree wholeheartedly with this and with denny. And I think that what we NEED to be doing is, rather than putting time and energy into starting a redundant organization put that time and energy into rattling cages at the USEF and banging some heads together and get the changes we need THERE done. The USEA is right there with all the things that are mentioned in the OP, but if people trot off to start another group and support that group instead of getting after those who need to be gotten after (the USEF and, the Big Game, the FEI), then it is going to be harder and harder to get the changes that we need.



  19. #19
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    I think in a sense we already have this, at least here in NC, we have the NCDCTA (Dressage and Combined Training). Some events are completely unrecognized schooling events, others NCDCTA recognized, other nationally recognized. Although I am not a member (like I need ANOTHER fee to pay), I do like the structure of it so that if a person is inclined to be a point-chaser, they can do so without necessarily having to commit to dumping all their money towards USEF and can keep it on an NCDCTA (much cheaper) level and still get year end awards.



  20. #20
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    I think Combined Training makes it sound like a combined training show, just dressage and showjumping.

    Something really original would be nice?



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