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  1. #1
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    Default Question about stall sizes/construction

    I met with the guy building our barn today. We're getting a great deal, but he is a very old guy who's kind of set in his ways and had "no idea why I wanted 15x12 stalls" because "he's never in his life seen a horse who needed a stall bigger than 10'x12' ". He's just a little hard to talk to. We're building our own stalls, so it's not a big deal what he thinks about the sizes, but he agreed that he would set the stall supporting posts free of charge. Great! So what I'm confused about is that on the 12' wide stalls he has an extra supporting post between the two stalls. Picture the dividing wall between two stalls that has a post going from the ground to the rafters right in the middle of it. I've never seen this done so I thought maybe I wasn't looking hard enough! It's most annoying because I won't be able to use the u-channels and drop the tongue and groove in, if I add bars in between the stalls the post may interfere, extra cutting out for rubber mats which is an absolute PITA, and just not a smooth neat looking stall to me. Does anyone have stalls like this or know anything about construction? He's saying the same thing about the fronts of the stalls. They're 15' wide, the door is 4', so that leaves an 11' span that he says will need an extra support. Am I wrong in thinking this is odd? We can obviously tell him we don't want them, I just don't want to be wrong. Thanks!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 15, 2005
    Location
    Cambridge Springs, PA
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    Default

    I can understand your reasons for not wanting the extra support posts, but I can tell you they will make your stall walls ALOT stronger.

    So really, it's up to you and your needs and wants. They'll be okay (really) without and you'll get the look you want.... or if you need really uber strong walls then go with the extra support and make your plans around them.
    www.hogbackhillfarm.com



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 16, 2008
    Location
    Central Oklahoma
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    2,881

    Default

    He will set the stall supporting posts free of charge? If I were you, I would jump on it. Most of us don't do it because it is most costly to have extra support. I can tell you that it is probably a good idea to have extra support on your 15' stall fronts.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
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    Default

    If he thinks the stall walls won't be strong enough on 15', I wonder how many stalls he has built or seen?

    I would do what you want, for your own reasons and if it is wrong, you can't blame but yourself.

    I agree that you don't need those supports, unless you are building for rhinoceros.

    My serious question for you would be, will that extra support post be out there, where horses can rub or hit it, where they can nibble on it, etc.?
    I would not like anything sticking out in a stall, if it is not absolutely necessary.
    Then, it may not hurt any and you can never built strong enough anything, but sure can too flimsy.



  5. #5
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    Default

    Thanks for the advice. Yes... like pp mentioned, I'm afraid they will become butt/neck scratching posts. I guess I'm just still confused. I emailed two of the conventional build stall manufacturer that we were going to buy some of our grates, etc. from and they both said that they aren't necessary for a 12' span, especially with tongue and groove that adds support and possibly a metal wall stiffener for good measure run up the sides.

    About the 15' stall fronts, it's actually less of a span than the sides, because the doors are 4 foot and will already have a post set on both sides of the doors. He's wanting to add another down the middle of the 11' left so I'd have 4 posts up the front of the stalls! I guess I'm still confused. I don't want to skimp if it's legitimately necessary, but I don't want it to look ridiculous in a small barn also.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2008
    Location
    New Hampshire
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    As the fiance of a builder and friends with barn builders I can say it may come down to the framing itself. I know when we built our barn, we could span 12' without an additional support based on the way the barn is framed, but I have heard that under some framing conditions you cannot span more than 8' and that may be where this is coming from. Is your guy a barn contractor or traditional home builder?

    Maybe you can ask him about the structural aspect and find out WHY you need to have the additional support. I agree it opens the door to a boat load of PITA issues, but in the long run it keeps your barn strong I would opt that route. Also, does this guy plan on making the additional stall door post structural or not? That could make a difference too.



  7. #7
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    Default

    Thanks. I believe he said he used to build homes back in the day and the pole barn company he's a rep for now builds all sorts of pole barn structures.



  8. #8
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    ...and I should point out that I guess I don't know his exact barn/building qualifications. He's the sales rep and a whole different crew will be building it.



  9. #9
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    Dec. 14, 2008
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    New Hampshire
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    Do you get to see a final set of plans before construction? That should have pole placement right on it. I would be interested in what the standard spanning measurement is they are using.



  10. #10
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by manyspots View Post
    Do you get to see a final set of plans before construction? That should have pole placement right on it. I would be interested in what the standard spanning measurement is they are using.
    I do. I have the initial proposal that has the drawing on it when he factored in 4 10x12's because "that's just the way it should be". It's a little complicated because there are dutch doors in the back of the stalls, but basically, a post is set every 10' on the long wall, but then there's an extra one set in each stall for the dutch doors. So the spacing is 6' then 4', 6' then 4' etc. Then there's one every 8' on the short walls. Does that make any sense? But our new plan is different so I have no idea how the spacing will come back for that.



  11. #11
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    Dec. 14, 2008
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    New Hampshire
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    I cannot STAND it when people say things like "this is how it should be." Listen, this is MY BARN and I am not an unreasonable person but I am the one left to work out of this facility I spent my hard earned money on!!!



  12. #12
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    Mar. 9, 2006
    Location
    Lucama, NC
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    My stall walss are 12' and yes, we have a center supporting post. I would NEVER EVER build a barn without this as one kick and the horses leg COULD go right thru the boards, even with tongue and groove without such a supporting structure, then you ahve a horse with it leg caught between two boards, just ask MROADES on this board, it happened recently to her!



  13. #13
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    What if the center post was cemented in, but only went up the stalls to the top of the wood? So it would still support the tongue and groove (I could do a u-channel on each side of the post so instead of one long row of boards it would be 2 rows) but would not extend into the grate. I'm still just confused how this is all of a sudden a necessity and I have NEVER seen it! The norm that I've seen is the u-channels so would can take the boards out and make a larger stall.



  14. #14
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmalbone View Post
    What if the center post was cemented in, but only went up the stalls to the top of the wood? So it would still support the tongue and groove (I could do a u-channel on each side of the post so instead of one long row of boards it would be 2 rows) but would not extend into the grate. I'm still just confused how this is all of a sudden a necessity and I have NEVER seen it! The norm that I've seen is the u-channels so would can take the boards out and make a larger stall.
    Maybe if you explain that to him, that you at times may want to take the boards off to make a large stall, he would rethink how he can frame it all without needing to add posts in the middle?

    Ask him as if he may come with a good idea for your problem of with the post not being able to double the size and he may be more cooperative.

    In the end, remember, it is YOUR barn and you should not do anything in there that doesn't make sense to you, even if you have to get a little bit hardheaded about it.



  15. #15
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    Nov. 6, 2002
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    Henrico, NC 36 30'50.49" N 77 50'17.47" W
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    Often free help is the most expensive you can get.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 2006
    Location
    Port Perry Ontario - formerly Prodomus
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    You should be able to do what you want but imho 12 by 15 is an odd size. 12 x 16 makes more sense as far as lumber sizes - 12x15 will waste a lot of lumber. Lumber is made for 2 or 4" increments of construction.

    Also - and this is just my opinion so no need to take office - just giving you another view, unless it is a broodmare/foaling stall, a stall for drafts or in my case I have a stud colt that is already 17.1 at 2 yrs of age so he is getting a 10 x 16 stall for winter that is used as a broodmare stall in the spring, any bigger than 12 by 12 is a waste unless these horses are in all the time. You will use up so much bedding. I would rather have more stalls (because you never can have too many stalls).

    I have one wall of four stalls - where two center walls come out for foaling stalls. Then in the winter they become regular sized stalls again.


    I have 9 horses - all are 16.2hh or bigger - 4 that are 17hh (but one is a foal) and they have 10 x 10 stalls - they all lay down and they all seem to like their stalls, but I wouldn't mind the 12 by 12 - but again we put soft stalls in and that adds substantially to the cost again. Plus our horses are usually outside 8-12 hours per day unless it rains or is bad weather/icy.

    Good luck with your building



  17. #17
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodomus View Post
    You should be able to do what you want but imho 12 by 15 is an odd size. 12 x 16 makes more sense as far as lumber sizes - 12x15 will waste a lot of lumber. Lumber is made for 2 or 4" increments of construction.

    Also - and this is just my opinion so no need to take office - just giving you another view, unless it is a broodmare/foaling stall, a stall for drafts or in my case I have a stud colt that is already 17.1 at 2 yrs of age so he is getting a 10 x 16 stall for winter that is used as a broodmare stall in the spring, any bigger than 12 by 12 is a waste unless these horses are in all the time. You will use up so much bedding. I would rather have more stalls (because you never can have too many stalls).

    I have one wall of four stalls - where two center walls come out for foaling stalls. Then in the winter they become regular sized stalls again.


    I have 9 horses - all are 16.2hh or bigger - 4 that are 17hh (but one is a foal) and they have 10 x 10 stalls - they all lay down and they all seem to like their stalls, but I wouldn't mind the 12 by 12 - but again we put soft stalls in and that adds substantially to the cost again. Plus our horses are usually outside 8-12 hours per day unless it rains or is bad weather/icy.

    Good luck with your building
    Thanks, but these are the size stalls that fit in our barn, no bigger and no less makes no sense to me. We can fit 4- 12x10s or 2- 12x15s with 2- 10x12s plus a tack room in the exact same barn, so imho it just makes more sense. I would rather have extra stall space and a tack room instead of 4- 10x12s. The lumber will span a 12' length... not 15. A foot wasted here and there is worth it for the extra stall size to me. I couldn't make their stalls smaller just because it was easier for me and might save a couple bucks. I just personally don't think extra stall space is ever a waste. I'm not sure where you live, but when our horses have to stay in their stalls for a week at a time in the icy winter the bigger size is well worth it. Thanks for the input though.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 1999
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    My instructor bought a place with the barn. And those stalls were like 8x10. And way way too small. So, she left 2 of them like that and they took out the middle partition so it's a 16x10. The 10 walls do not a have post in the middle of them. And she has horses coming in an out all the time. And they are kickers. No problems because the side walls are only 10 long.
    And it makes for a very nice stall. My horse, the neat freak loved his. He had his poop and pee area, eating area and sleeping area.
    I'm with you, I like the bigger stalls. Either that or in and outs like he had before. He would poop outside to keep his stall cleaner.



  19. #19
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    Ugh... now according to him, our 12x15 stalls need a supporting post (all these are 6x6's) at each corner, one in the middle of the shared stall wall, one for the stall door, and now one between the stall door and the wall in the middle of the front of the stall. Apparently now 11' is too far to span as well...



  20. #20
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    Jun. 22, 2008
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    Outside Ocala FL - Horse Capital of the World
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    I wish the folks that had built my barn stalls had put the supporting post in the middle, since my horses love to rub their butts on the wall, and are constantly popping the darn boards loose. One of these days I am going to find time to figure out how to reinforce them.
    There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams



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