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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May. 10, 2009
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    15

    Default Are any of these mares worthy of breeding for jumper potential?

    I have three mares. All were purchased for their performance ability...not necessarily as brood mares. They have each been or are successful to 1.40, good personalities and work ethics. With that said, I do not believe you should breed them just because you CAN. You should breed them if they have a pedigree and individual traits worthy of trying to replicate. With that said, my strongest asset is the fact that I admit to knowing little and I have no qualms about asking experts for advice. So, my question...are any of these pedigrees something I might try to breed from and if so, which ones or in what order of preference?

    at www.allpedigree.com they are:

    Scarlet64 (by Mezcalero); http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/scarlet64

    Tasja Marjos (by Karandasj) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tasja+marjos

    and

    Rilory (by Calvados) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rilory

    If any are worth trying to breed, I will start another thread asking about appropriate stallions!

    Thanks so much for any assistance you might throw my way!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2005
    Location
    Paris, Kentucky
    Posts
    3,196

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kippermom View Post
    I have three mares. All were purchased for their performance ability...not necessarily as brood mares. They have each been or are successful to 1.40, good personalities and work ethics. With that said, I do not believe you should breed them just because you CAN. You should breed them if they have a pedigree and individual traits worthy of trying to replicate. With that said, my strongest asset is the fact that I admit to knowing little and I have no qualms about asking experts for advice. So, my question...are any of these pedigrees something I might try to breed from and if so, which ones or in what order of preference?

    at www.allpedigree.com they are:

    Scarlet64 (by Mezcalero); http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/scarlet64

    Tasja Marjos (by Karandasj) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tasja+marjos

    and

    Rilory (by Calvados) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rilory

    If any are worth trying to breed, I will start another thread asking about appropriate stallions!

    Thanks so much for any assistance you might throw my way!
    I would be happy to take #1 and #3 off of your hands since Voltaire, Ramiro Z, Calvados, Nimmerdor and Ekstein are just soooo not "in" this year. You just might end up with a jumping machine and I'm sure that you don'twant that!
    Holly
    www.ironhorsefrm.com
    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Posts
    1,377

    Default maybe change the title a little bit?

    Since these are dutch mares, if you added "dutch mares" to your title, you might get more responses and capture the interest of the targeted market. Also maybe add the word jumper?

    I breed for dressage horses, so my lines are mainly dressage with jumpers thrown in. No expert here, but it looks like you've got some really good older grand prix jumping lines there, plus your mares have proven themselves in performance. What would your breeding goals be?

    Are you mares more old fashioned in appearance? If you could post pictures of your mares, that would be helpful for other people to make suggestions.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2004
    Location
    Elizabethtown, KY
    Posts
    2,689

    Default

    Without seeing photos its hard to make any suggestions, but it looks like you have 3 well bred mares who are successful in sport. Are any of them NOT worthy of being bred? If we aim to breed sport horses, starting with horses successful in sport is a good place to start I'd say! Good luck, looks like a good start for a new venture.
    Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

    http://www.halcyon-hill.com



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 10, 2009
    Posts
    15

    Default REPOST - Are any of these Dutch mares worthy of breeding for jumper potential?

    I have renamed and reposted this thread as a member suggested....


    I have three mares. All were purchased for their performance ability...not necessarily as brood mares. They have each been or are successful to 1.40, good personalities and work ethics. With that said, I do not believe you should breed them just because you CAN. You should breed them if they have a pedigree and individual traits worthy of trying to replicate. With that said, my strongest asset is the fact that I admit to knowing little and I have no qualms about asking experts for advice. So, my question...are any of these pedigrees something I might try to breed from and if so, which ones or in what order of preference?

    at www.allpedigree.com they are:

    Scarlet64 (by Mezcalero); http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/scarlet64

    Tasja Marjos (by Karandasj) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tasja+marjos

    and

    Rilory (by Calvados) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rilory

    If any are worth trying to breed, I will start another thread asking about appropriate stallions!

    Thanks so much for any assistance you might throw my way!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 10, 2009
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Fantastic...thanks for the suggestion. I started another thread with a more descriptive title to invite opinions from those with a greater interest/expertise in Dutch jumper lines.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2007
    Posts
    299

    Default

    Lovely jumper pedigrees!! I'd be happy to take one off your hands if ever need be! lol I would definitely be looking to beed in some blood, esp your mare, Scarlet, she sounds like she could be on the heavier side. Do you have pics to go with these drool worthy pedigrees!!! It's just not fair to post the pedigree without pics

    I'm going to sound like a broken record probably but seriously take a good look at Torino for producing a jumper...same with Quidam Junior and Cobra One all stand at www.jumpstartfarm.com these are some serious jumper pedigrees as well. Torino can certainly back it up with a drool worthy pedigree (Heartbreaker/Cassini I/Dinar/Marco Polo) as well as ability, production and the beginnings of a great performance career. Quidam Junior has one of my all time favorite sires and his motherline...you just can't beat it, Narcotique produced only international level showjumpers...and a 3? stallion sons. Cobra One, though not proven yet and just starting his performance career, has an exceptional pedigree (the famous Capitol/Caletto nick that produced horses like Indoctro, Carthago, Cassini I & II, Dobel's Cento and others) beautiful conformation, a huge jump, and dynamic gaits....and a very kind temperament...the quietest stallion I have ever known! Cobra and Torino are fresh semen options and Quidam Junior has exceptional frozen semen...I was able to get my 22 yr old mare pregnant first try with one dose and this after being barren for 2 1/2 years. Loads of frozen semen options as well. I guess I am partial and I'll give you more ideas for stallions once I've taken time to think carefully about them. Jump Start stallions always just come to mind first because I used 3 of their stallions last year and had a very good experience. Good luck and CONGRATS on having such valuable bloodlines to start with!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
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    7,411

    Default

    Sure, the bloodlines are worthy. I need to look at the motherlines in more detail (sorry ... didn't have time to tonight). The mares sound like they have the performance to back them up. Do you happen to have conformation photos?

    If you are interested in breeding, a good starting point would be to present them at a KWPN keuring this summer/fall and get an opinion on their gaits and conformation. This is also a great opportunity to meet other breeders in your area and be able to chat about horses and breeding. Great learning experience!
    Silver Creek Farms - home of Apiro & Validation
    Visit us on facebook!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    SE WI- Midwest
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    3,486

    Default

    The paardenfokken.nl database may be a better resource to do some research on your mares and their motherlines. The first mare looks pretty impressive to me.
    I'd love to see photos of the Karandasj mare! I'll happily take her off your hands, sight unseen.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2006
    Location
    North Central Florida
    Posts
    1,380

    Default

    We will be interested in seeing which stallions are suggested for your third mare. We too have Ekstein and Calvados in our herd.
    Sakura Hill Farm
    Now on Facebook

    Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2005
    Location
    Wellborn, Florida
    Posts
    697

    Default Pedigree vs performance

    This is a clear situation where these mares are absolutely worthy of breeding, regardless of their pedigree. They have performad better the 99.99% of all broodmares out there (even mares with "stellar" bloodlines). Furthermore, jumping is primarily inherited through the dam's side.



  12. #12
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    Jan. 2, 2007
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    Alpharetta
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    2,089

    Default

    You have got to be kidding All three are to die for!1 How about some pictures?



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2002
    Location
    Redlands, CA
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    7,774

    Default

    The Tasja mare has three crosses to Amor but only two show up in shaded background.

    I'd seek input from Willy Arts on these mares.

    The Scarlett horse pedigree comes up as a young filly.
    Last edited by Oakstable; May. 29, 2009 at 11:02 AM.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2003
    Location
    West Texas USA
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    1,680

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sixpoundfarm View Post
    The first mare looks pretty impressive to me.
    I'd love to see photos of the Karandasj mare! I'll happily take her off your hands, sight unseen.
    6# - I won't be as picky - I would take anyone of them also sight unseen.

    kippermom-nice bred mares!!! Want to share????



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    SE WI- Midwest
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CathyKb View Post
    6# - I won't be as picky - I would take anyone of them also sight unseen.

    kippermom-nice bred mares!!! Want to share????
    LOL!
    I find Karandasj really interesting, since his dam comes from the same Lottie motherline as my favorite girl.
    I think I may have to try some linebreeding at some point.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,017

    Default

    Welcome to the forums kippermom!

    We merged your two threads together to avoid duplication and changed the title for you.

    For future reference, you can change the title of a thread you've started anytime by clicking on the "edit" button from the lower right hand corner of your first post.

    Then click on "go advanced," which will give you the option to change your title.

    Here's a link to some FAQs on some of the other tools the board features if you want to learn more.

    Thanks and welcome aboard!
    Mod 1



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
    Location
    Central Florida
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    4,053

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by showjumpers66 View Post
    Sure, the bloodlines are worthy. I need to look at the motherlines in more detail (sorry ... didn't have time to tonight). The mares sound like they have the performance to back them up. Do you happen to have conformation photos?

    If you are interested in breeding, a good starting point would be to present them at a KWPN keuring this summer/fall and get an opinion on their gaits and conformation. This is also a great opportunity to meet other breeders in your area and be able to chat about horses and breeding. Great learning experience!
    I would also like to see pics before saying "yay or nay" on any of them.

    Showjumper: you have said it best IMO
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    633

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by szipi View Post
    This is a clear situation where these mares are absolutely worthy of breeding, regardless of their pedigree. They have performad better the 99.99% of all broodmares out there (even mares with "stellar" bloodlines). Furthermore, jumping is primarily inherited through the dam's side.
    This might have been a valid comment if it did not have the "regardless of their pedigree" thrown in. Jumping is a heritable trait. And you always breed to the dam's side of any pedigree. But these other generalities don't always mean you will get a satisfactory result.

    These are Dutch mares and appear of good breeding. Best advice? They should be bred to Dutch stallions so that the foals will get Dutch papers.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    May. 10, 2009
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Oakstable...You caught me...Scarlet is just 2. We bred for her as well as her full sister of the same age (Lena). (ET double ovulation etc.) so they are a "matched set". (IJF nominated but not registered as anything)

    We had been told that some breeders will breed a filly when they are just 3 or 4 before they go under saddle so I was trying to ascertain whether it made any sense to do that with one of the 2 year olds or if either of the older mares (both are 8) had adequate pedigrees to breed them as well or instead of the Mezcalero fillys, at least for the time being. I guess I am trying to get a handle on what I have here with these 4 mares by way of breeding quality....or if I just need to look elsewhere for young prospects.

    The Karandasj mare was presented and bred twice in Holland (Elite?) before we imported her last year for 1.40 but the other three have not so I will look into the possibility of doing so here.

    I appreciate the feedback and will try to get some pics together as that seems to be the next step in figuring out what to do and who to do it with!



  20. #20
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    Mar. 26, 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,096

    Default

    Regarding the third mare:

    I purchased a 3 year old Calvados (X Wolfgang X Ulft) mare in Holland from Team Nijhof and bred her prior to importing her to the states. I bred her to Concorde (who btw is even nicer looking in person than the pictures) on the recommendation of Jeannette at Team Nijhof and it appears so far that the match was good. The filly (who is 2) has a great temperament, easily handled and trained, and beautifully put together. I would repeat the breeding but the Calvados mare has now started her performance career.

    Anyways very nice mares.



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