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  1. #1
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    Default standing vs running martingale

    I can't believe that I don't know this but it never really came up. The hunters that I've had went in a standing and my jumper doesn't use a martingale. Sooooo, can someone please tell me when you would use a standing vs a running and the different benefits of each? I need to talk to my trainer about DD's need for a martingale if we switch her pony to jumpers (pony goes in standing now) and would like to try to not appear stupid!

    Thanks.



  2. #2
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    While standing martingales are more common in jumpers, don't think you *have* to have one if you do jumpers--if you already have a standing martingale, it is just as practical in lower level jumpers, and that is because the standing martingale is more restrictive than the running. the standing martingale is slack and shouldn't be felt by the horse until he lifts his head way too high, in which case it puts pressure on the nose. i wouldn't call it more 'dangerous' than a standing martingale, because truly both are safety devices. but, in emergency situations, a standing martingale is considerably safer (depending upon the situation, of course) because it can be loosened, and because it will not restrict the horse as much. as for how things work: instead of putting pressure on the nose, the running martingale creates leverage (when the horse puts its head too high) the reason this is 'safer' is because the rings of the running martingale can slide around, and in general provides more freedom, which is needed for tricky jumper courses. you rarely see standing martingales in jumpers to begin with, and i don't think ive ever encountered one in higher level jumpers (it would be unsafe and unpractical at that point) but theyre certainly safe and normal in lower-level stuff. you could probably use a running martingale in hunters, technically, but why would you? it'd be considered along the same lines of a kimberwicke. the hunter courses don't require speed, they require elegance and steadiness, and generally that means no turning on a dime no short spurts of running and slowing up like in a jumpoff . so a standing martingale is much more practical in hunterland. you mentioned your daughter had a pony? i think you can keep the standing martingale for now if she's just doing the itty bitty stuff, but if she plans on doing the pony jumpers, i would invest in the running martingale--those courses are tricky, and the fences can get pretty big especially for a pony. hope this helps
    (|--Sarah--|)

    Blitz <3 & Leap of Faith <3



  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by superpony123 View Post
    . you rarely see standing martingales in jumpers to begin with, and i don't think ive ever encountered one in higher level jumpers (it would be unsafe and unpractical at that point) but theyre certainly safe and normal in lower-level stuff. you could probably use a running martingale in hunters, technically, but why would you?
    The reason you don't see them in higher level jumpers is because they are not 'legal' in classes with $5K or more in prize money and in young horse classes.



  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S A McKee View Post
    The reason you don't see them in higher level jumpers is because they are not 'legal' in classes with $5K or more in prize money and in young horse classes.
    Exactly. I would also say running martingales are more common, not standing. perhaps in the lower jumper levels, where all people do anyway is run around over speedbumps, a standing may be used, but I've seen more jumpers with running martingales, rather than standings.

    Also, kimberwickes are fine to be used in the hunters. Yes, they may be more unconvenetional than a plain D, but a judge would rather see a nice round with a kimberwicke than an awkward one with a D. I've ridden a pony that went in a kimberwicke who was one of the top large pony hunters in the country.

    If you are planning on doing the pony jumpers, I would invest in a running martingale.



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by S A McKee View Post
    The reason you don't see them in higher level jumpers is because they are not 'legal' in classes with $5K or more in prize money and in young horse classes.
    Well that makes sense then I don't do jumpers though, so my knowledge on the rules of jumpers is quite limited.
    (|--Sarah--|)

    Blitz <3 & Leap of Faith <3



  6. #6
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    Default

    Why is it that runnings are not permitted in hunter classes, exactly?
    "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep."
    - Harry Dresden

    Horse Isle 2: Legend of the Esrohs LifeCycle Breeding and competition MMORPG



  7. #7
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    My experience with runnings is that they create enough pressure to hold a horses head down. A standing down loosely will not hold a horses head down it will just restrict how high the head can go. And yes you see runnings more in jumpers than standing.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renn/aissance View Post
    Why is it that runnings are not permitted in hunter classes, exactly?
    They aren't technically illegal, but they are pretty damn unconventional. My jumper went in a running, but we did the A/O hunters for a season after she was coming back from an injury and we didn't want to push her. We wore no martingale rather than the running.

    You'll see the running the the jumper phase of the Washington Eq and the Maclay (I think) and the USEF. Anything jumper-themed you might see a running in the eq.

    But in the hunters it is really never done. Not illegal, just NEVER seen because they are explicitly stated as being unconventional in the rulebook.

    HU125 Tack.
    1. Regulation snaffles, pelhams and full bridles, all with cavesson nose bands, are recommended.
    A judge may penalize for non-conventional types of bits or nosebands.
    2. Competitors may be refused an award unless they return to the ring for conformation or
    soundness with the same complete bridle in which they have performed.
    3. Martingales of any type are prohibited in Under Saddle, hack and tie-breaking classes.
    Standing martingales are allowed for all over fence classes. All other martingales may be
    considered unconventional
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by tidy rabbit View Post
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community.



  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rabicon View Post
    My experience with runnings is that they create enough pressure to hold a horses head down. A standing down loosely will not hold a horses head down it will just restrict how high the head can go. And yes you see runnings more in jumpers than standing.
    A PROPERLY ADJUSTED running martingale will "just restrict how high the head can go". It will not come into effect until the head is too high.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  10. #10
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    Default

    Also, if you don't have a steady hand you shouldn't use a running as the bouncing up & down motion will keep the martingale in play. The reason is a running puts pressure on the bars of the mouth if the head comes up, a standing puts pressure on the nose (this is not affected by how your hands are so that's also why more novice riders use a standing!). In Canada, you can use a standing upto & including 1.10m in the jumpers after that you have to use either nothing or a running martingale. Personally, I found that once you get above 1m the standing started to resrict a good bascule.
    Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExJumper View Post
    They aren't technically illegal, but they are pretty damn unconventional. My jumper went in a running, but we did the A/O hunters for a season after she was coming back from an injury and we didn't want to push her. We wore no martingale rather than the running.

    You'll see the running the the jumper phase of the Washington Eq and the Maclay (I think) and the USEF. Anything jumper-themed you might see a running in the eq.

    But in the hunters it is really never done. Not illegal, just NEVER seen because they are explicitly stated as being unconventional in the rulebook.
    How to make me feel old. Used to be that in hunter appointments classes ( back with the spare gloves under the billets, the required breastplate, sewn in double bridle, no saddle pad, actual sandwich in the sandwich case, etc. [but before anyone even thought of wearing shadbellies]) a standing martingale was considered incorrect. Has to do with the problem of actual hunters crossing deep water and needing to be able to swim...

    However, now the usually mis-adjusted standing martingale is the norm.
    madeline
    * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis



  12. #12
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    Default

    These discussions about standing vs. running always remind me of the line from Jane Marshall Dillon that went something like

    "a standing martingale was proof that the rider had rough hands and didn't know how to school."


    Though I think these days a standing is more of a fashion accessory than anything else...
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  13. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rabicon View Post
    My experience with runnings is that they create enough pressure to hold a horses head down. A standing down loosely will not hold a horses head down it will just restrict how high the head can go. And yes you see runnings more in jumpers than standing.
    Well, sure. But I really hate the idea of punishing a horse's mouth when he's resisting by moving his head to get away from pressure he's already getting there. And with a running and all but the most sophisticated of hands, the pressure doesn't stop immediatedly when he complies. At least a properly adjusted standing only acts to control the scope of the evasion, and pressure is relieved instantaneously.

    I hate to see childrens/adult jumpers zooming around with runnings and lacking the skills to use one without abuse.
    madeline
    * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis



  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    How to make me feel old. Used to be that in hunter appointments classes ( back with the spare gloves under the billets, the required breastplate, sewn in double bridle, no saddle pad, actual sandwich in the sandwich case, etc. [but before anyone even thought of wearing shadbellies]) a standing martingale was considered incorrect. Has to do with the problem of actual hunters crossing deep water and needing to be able to swim...

    However, now the usually mis-adjusted standing martingale is the norm.
    I agree. My trainer was old-school and she told me to use the running in the hunters if I wanted to. She also remembered when they were the norm.

    And I do believe that in the right hands a running is a good tool and a much more delicate aid than is a standing.

    But although my horse went better in it as a jumper, in hunter classes with no turns or tough adjustments, she went fine without anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by tidy rabbit View Post
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community.



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