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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 10, 2008
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    Canada
    Posts
    616

    Default Rate my eq? (3' Jumper)

    Hi, wondering if I could get an equitation rate on these 2 horses at the show this past weekend. You can show no mercy, I need it. From 3' Jumpers with one and the 2'6 with the other

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...d&id=514954937
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...3&id=514954937
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...e&id=514954937
    "Disapproval of the way other people run their businesses and treat their horses is the meat and drink of the hunter-jumper industry."
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 10, 2007
    Location
    down south
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    5,060

    Default

    1st photo:
    You could get your calf a little more on your horse but leg looks nice otherwise. Back looks great, not jumping ahead but you need to give a little more release. you look like your holding on for dear life (holding him moreso than yourself) Is he a strong jumper? Follow him a little more with your hand and down you will have a nice auto release. Don't hold his mouth so much so he can really use his head and neck.

    2nd photo:
    You look like you got left behind. Your leg has went a little to forward and your coming down to soon. Still give him a little more rein in your release and turn and get your calf on him.

    3rd photo:
    You didn't wait for him, your are jumping way up his neck and still not giving a release.

    You look very nice though. Nice stable leg and seat. Really work on your release and not coming back to soon after the jump.

    I looked at some of your other photos, you do tend to jump up the neck when the horse goes to take off you just bring yourself back in the air. Let the horse lift you up and don't jump for him.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 30, 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    678

    Default

    One thing I noticed in all of the pics was that your hand was fixed pretty much at the withers, not allowing your horse to have freedom of his head and neck. You should either slide your hands up to where they are resting on his crest but still allowing him to use his head and neck, or use an automatic release. Everything else looks pretty solid to me, though you are jumping ahead on the last one.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
    Location
    Triangle Area, NC
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    6,714

    Default

    the rest of your position is very workman like, so why not focus on the auto release? it would give your horse more freedom and you more control
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 10, 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    616

    Default

    Thanks! I was definitely a little fixed in my hand all weekend, I have that problem sometimes, but especially when I'm nervous-- the gray was kinda jumping out from under me too. AND I ALWAYS JUMP AHEAD The only time I seem to wait is in combinations of a considerable height, I stay back after the first fence, but on single fences I just seem to sort of 'duck' before they jump. Any exercises to help with this? Bizarrely, closing my eyes just before takeoff has helped, but I didn't want to do that at the show, of course.
    "Disapproval of the way other people run their businesses and treat their horses is the meat and drink of the hunter-jumper industry."
    Working Student Blog
    Current Blog



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 30, 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    678

    Default

    Best way to learn not to jump ahead? Get on a stopper. It won't take more than once for you to half seat early and come off like a lawn dart for you to learn.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,999

    Default

    No critique but I loff your grey...what is he?
    \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 25, 2005
    Location
    Cazenovia, NY
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    I am going to concentrate on the 1st picture as it is the closest to what you should be working towards.

    Your angles in your leg are excellent, that is almost exactly how your leg should look; however you have slid back, your crotch et all is about 6 inches too far back in the saddle and consequently you leg is not as secure as it needs to be, I would guess that you are standing up in the stirrups a bit and not sinking down into the saddle as much as you should, which is allowing you to slip past the center of balance in the saddle.

    When I was younger and concentrated on Eq the first thing my father used to make me do before the horse took a step was to find that sweet spot (the center of balance) where my crotch, leg, and butt felt locked in, like a bull rider, once I found that spot I concentrated on staying in that zone. Dad used to make me intimate that position in my mind, so that I would always have a mental picture of what my position looked like, eventually it became natural, and I felt extremely uncomfortable when I was not in that sweet spot, and could extend that picture to the aspects of my position that were failing. It worked well, I won every eq class I was ever in, and more importantly I knew instantly when I was not balanced, which extends well beyond eq to helping your horse do his job. You need to concentrate on that, and everything else will fall into place.

    Your arms/hands are again nearly perfect, but again the standing in your stirrups, and not finding that center of balance has forced you to balance on the horse’s mouth. Though you are clearly doing a crest release, I would guess that as the horse starts to come off the ground you are catching up by using his mouth, not good. Again find that center of balance and all that goes away. When you are balanced it is almost impossible to hit a horse in the mouth as their movement is what moves you. Get the balance thing down and you are poised for an auto release, which based on the picture would be very natural for you, again once you get the balance thing in line.

    I absolutely love the horse in this picture, he is scopey, tight, square, attentive, and though you are on his mouth he does not seem to care one bit, he loves his job. Based on this picture alone I would think he easily has the ability to top those standards. You may have some comments about his lower legs not being tighter, but personally I would be a little concerned about his scope if he were super tight over this fence. To me he appears to be jumping naturally without any worries about his ability.

    Though I have had some criticisms of your position etc. you must be doing something very right between the fences because he is balanced and comfortable over this fence, and though we talk endlessly about position over a fence, your job as a rider is 99% between the fences, once he is in the air your only job is to stay out of the way and let him do his job.

    Just a quick thought on the second picture of you on the bay.... The picture really reminds me of Anne Kursinski, the leg, the body, the hands.... which is an excellent thing.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 10, 2007
    Location
    down south
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    Default

    Do gird work with no reins, then no irons and when you get that do it without both Will really help your jumping ahead and will help your leg become stronger.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
    Location
    Middleburg, VA
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    13,118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard of Oz's View Post
    Best way to learn not to jump ahead? Get on a stopper. It won't take more than once for you to half seat early and come off like a lawn dart for you to learn.
    Apparently I'm a slow learner because it took me a year and a half riding a stopper before I got a clue. But it is a valuable teaching aid.

    Count your rhythm. But don't count down (because what happens when you get to 0 and you're still not there?), count UP. This really, really works because it forces you to concentrate on the rhythm. I've seen UL event riders use it, and have taught it to little kids cantering their first fences, and it works on EVERYONE. And just focus on riding a rhythm in general. If you keep a consistent rhythm, you'll get better about knowing what you are getting to.

    I won't go into your eq a whole bunch, but I will say that your stirrups in the second two photos look too long (a whole or two...maybe even three), and your release is so close, but not quite. I prefer seeing a following hand that keeps a soft contact. Just try and follow him a bit more (basically, do an "auto" release). As an event rider, I don't get too caught up in my release, as long as it is appropriate for the jump and I'm not punishing my horse.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 10, 2008
    Location
    Canada
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    616

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauwse View Post
    When I was younger and concentrated on Eq the first thing my father used to make me do before the horse took a step was to find that sweet spot (the center of balance) where my crotch, leg, and butt felt locked in, like a bull rider, once I found that spot I concentrated on staying in that zone.
    This is very cool, and I think I know what you mean, I have felt that sweet moment but only a few times in my life; I find that when I do get there my hands naturally give her the automatic release, which is very interesting. Maybe visualizing and trying to recreate that feeling would help with this.

    Count your rhythm. But don't count down (because what happens when you get to 0 and you're still not there?), count UP. This really, really works because it forces you to concentrate on the rhythm. I've seen UL event riders use it, and have taught it to little kids cantering their first fences, and it works on EVERYONE. And just focus on riding a rhythm in general. If you keep a consistent rhythm, you'll get better about knowing what you are getting to.

    I have totally counted down to 0 and then been like "OHSHIZ" when there's either a chip stride or a LOONG spot where I expected the distance to be. THe one thing is, on course I often forget to count even when I plan to. (There's a picture in the album of the gray horse where you can see this in action, it's a majorly long spot to a fan fence where I just didn't see it ) In my next lesson I will try counting up to the fence.

    I would definitely like to try learning the automatic release, especially now that I am riding a few different horses. Are there exercises that help with this that I could do on my own? I can work on my own time over small (<2 feet) obstacles and on the flat of course.

    The gray horse is not my horse, but a friend's sale horse and she is a beautiful Thoroughbred/Irish cross that I really wish I could buy! Very scopey and fun! She's overjumping a bit here, probably because it is her second show and first outdoor show of the season so she was a little impressed by the decorated fences after a few months of her familiar equipment. :]
    "Disapproval of the way other people run their businesses and treat their horses is the meat and drink of the hunter-jumper industry."
    Working Student Blog
    Current Blog



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 25, 2005
    Location
    Cazenovia, NY
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    1,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chukkerchild View Post
    This is very cool, and I think I know what you mean, I have felt that sweet moment but only a few times in my life; I find that when I do get there my hands naturally give her the automatic release, which is very interesting. Maybe visualizing and trying to recreate that feeling would help with this.

    Count your rhythm. But don't count down (because what happens when you get to 0 and you're still not there?), count UP. This really, really works because it forces you to concentrate on the rhythm. I've seen UL event riders use it, and have taught it to little kids cantering their first fences, and it works on EVERYONE. And just focus on riding a rhythm in general. If you keep a consistent rhythm, you'll get better about knowing what you are getting to.

    I have totally counted down to 0 and then been like "OHSHIZ" when there's either a chip stride or a LOONG spot where I expected the distance to be. THe one thing is, on course I often forget to count even when I plan to. (There's a picture in the album of the gray horse where you can see this in action, it's a majorly long spot to a fan fence where I just didn't see it ) In my next lesson I will try counting up to the fence.

    I would definitely like to try learning the automatic release, especially now that I am riding a few different horses. Are there exercises that help with this that I could do on my own? I can work on my own time over small (<2 feet) obstacles and on the flat of course.

    The gray horse is not my horse, but a friend's sale horse and she is a beautiful Thoroughbred/Irish cross that I really wish I could buy! Very scopey and fun! She's overjumping a bit here, probably because it is her second show and first outdoor show of the season so she was a little impressed by the decorated fences after a few months of her familiar equipment. :]
    I think the auto release is something that comes more naturally than is something that is practiced, though for some, learned routine limits them to the crest release, and for these individuals practice may help to break the habit of going to the crest release exclusively.

    For me when I started taking lessons with my father I rode exclusively without stirrups and without my hands, concept being understand balance, and learn to use your most important aids (leg/seat). As I am sure you know, it is hard to sit a trot, post a trot, or even canter without stirrups and hands if you are not balanced, especially if you cannot direct the horse with your hands. It has always been his philosophy that you have to become one with the horse to be truly balanced, corny, but very accurate. All the information we get from a horse can be felt if we are there to feel it. I am sure you learned to feel for your diagonals by feeling for the horses hip to come forward, to feel the horses stride at the canter so you know when he has both hind legs off the ground and consequently when the best time to ask for a lead change is so it is seamless, broken down this is what he means by becoming one with the horse.

    If I were to practice anything with the goal of the crest release I would focus on balance. Once you get to the point where you are able to give yourself to a horse over a fence, not anticipating, not interfering, but just letting the motion of the horse move you into the positions over a fence, with a focus "being one with him, balanced, the auto release should become so natural you don't even notice you are doing it, simply because the auto release is a function of form, which is on high level nothing more than balance.

    Spend more time riding without stirrups and jump small fences or even poles on the ground with no hands, when you get balanced you will feel it, then all you have to do is try to imitate that feeling until it becomes second nature and any other position feels dead wrong.

    I do think based on your pictures that you have good natural instincts, and it should take you no time at all to become a very solid jockey!



  13. #13
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    Jan. 10, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by chukkerchild View Post
    I would definitely like to try learning the automatic release, especially now that I am riding a few different horses. Are there exercises that help with this that I could do on my own? I can work on my own time over small (<2 feet) obstacles and on the flat of course.
    When I learned to do this, we called it a 'follow-through" release, and for good reason. Ride to the fence in two-point with your hands against the horse's neck about four inches down each side of the neck and a loop in the reins. Maintain that position, hands against the neck, over the jump. You will find that you MUST have a soft, following elbow in order to do this. Practicing this will teach you the feeling of following the motion of the neck (and head) over the jumps. And because you can't balance on the neck, you'd better have already found that "sweet spot" that Hauwse talked about! You can gradually shorten the reins and be able to follow the motion with your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
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