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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 26, 2005
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    67

    Default tetra vesus doxy in Lymes

    I am trying to decide between treating a Lymes flare up with another course of the doxy, but my vet has recommended going the tetracycline route as that reduces the reoccurance of flare ups. Has anyone else found this to be true? This will be the third flare up I have treated since I have had him (4 years).

    Thanks!

    Tracy



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 6, 2000
    Location
    Amherst, MA
    Posts
    5,305

    Default

    You might want to do a search on this forum on information about the tetra vs. doxy issue. There are several COTH'ers who have horses who've had multiple flare-ups.

    I have treated my horse twice for lyme disease ( 4 years apart). Both times with doxy. I had good results both times, and I think (but obviously don't know) that the horse was probably re-infected the second time rather than suffering a re-lapse from the original infection.

    Good luck.
    "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
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    2,474

    Default

    I have read several articles on Oxytet vs. doxy. Oxytet is a superior med for lyme treatment , however, it is an intravenout med, so most owners don't want to go through tending an IV catherer for 10-21 days. I used it for my gelding and got a very strong and lasting result.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2007
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    915

    Default

    Powder tetracyclene does exist -- it's a bit cheaper than doxy, but not considered to be as bioavailable as the doxy (according to Cornell). However, doxy doesn't seem to work with my mare at all. She goes backward on it. IV tetracyclene works great, but she pulls the catheters out and will only tolerate so many days of individual IV needles. I'm actually just about to call my vet to request a switch over to tetracyclene. I wanted to do it a couple weeks ago, but he and Cornell suggested against it. Now that she's still on doxy and has completely regressed, I think they'll listen. For some reason she seems to do better with tetracyclene. I'm hoping it works, since this is literally our last resort with her. 6 months of IV and doxy (well, with a few months in between the 1st and 2nd rounds) haven't worked, and unfortunately she's symptomatic to the point of it being a quality of life issue. The only time she's comfortable and happy is when she's on IV or within a couple weeks after I'm at my wit's end.

    I would love to hear other people's experiences with doxy vs. tetracyclene, and whether anyone has had more luck with powder tetracyclene than powder doxy.
    Gentleman J - "Junior" - My been-there, done-that jumper

    Send Your Love - "Serena" - Aug 10th 2009, Rest in Peace



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 8, 2004
    Posts
    4,291

    Default

    I live in an area where Lyme Disease is prevalent. My horses, dogs and kids have had it and so have I.
    Because I have been through this with the horses multiple times, I have found that a four day course of IV Tetracycline followed by a 2-3 month course of oral Doxycycline has been the best way to knock it down. When I went with the course of oral Doxycycline alone, my TB mare never quite got over it, so when she had a flareup, we went the IV Tetracycline/Oral Doxy route and the change in her was amazing.

    It's best to talk it over with your vet. My vets have given me some great tips to try to prevent ticks from hitching a ride on my horses: Equispot, a line of Swat under the chin so they can't get on when horses are grazing and spraying the tail, lower legs and chin groove with show sheen.
    Good luck.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,414

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chai View Post
    I have found that a four day course of IV Tetracycline followed by a 2-3 month course of oral Doxycycline has been the best way to knock it down. When I went with the course of oral Doxycycline alone, my TB mare never quite got over it, so when she had a flareup, we went the IV Tetracycline/Oral Doxy route and the change in her was amazing.

    It's best to talk it over with your vet.

    This is what I'm doing this time as well. Just finished IV tet and he started oral doxy this morning.

    Talk everything over with your vet of course.

    I spoke with a few friends over the weekend and we all remarked how bad the ticks are this year.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 5, 2006
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    356

    Default

    [ My vets have given me some great tips to try to prevent ticks from hitching a ride on my horses: Equispot, a line of Swat under the chin so they can't get on when horses are grazing and spraying the tail, lower legs and chin groove with show sheen.]


    Wow! Going to try those! We are starting the tetracycline this week for one of ours, and I was really happy to see this thread. Thanks!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2007
    Posts
    2,899

    Default

    I did the 21 day course of IV Tetracycline on my gelding. He had three flare-ups in a three year period that had been treated with Doxy. So for the IV Tet vet inserted a catheter in his neck. Horse never even knew it was there. We only had to replace catheter one time because it broke. I'd flush it once in the morning with saline and then administer the Tet. INCREDIBLY SLOWLY for safety (over a five minute period). Horse has been right as rain since. Feeling great and no return of the Lyme. According to Cornell's research Doxy is really a waste. If you don't do the 21 days of IV Tet. you can expect to see the Lyme return. Might as well get rid of it once and for all.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2007
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    915

    Default

    Well, my mare was on 1 week of IV followed by 4 weeks doxy, then 11 days IV (she kept tearing the catheter out, so 11 days was when she maxed out and wouldn't allow the needle any more) and we're on week 3 of doxy. I would love to have had her on the full 30 days of IV as Cornell suggested, but my mare was becoming dangerous about it - like rearing and striking. My mare does great on IV, but regresses quickly on doxy. We're going to try powder tetracycline as a last resort.

    Cornell actually recommended powder doxy over tetracycline as it's more bioavailable, so I wouldn't say they think it's a complete waste, they just encourage a week of IV to start.
    Gentleman J - "Junior" - My been-there, done-that jumper

    Send Your Love - "Serena" - Aug 10th 2009, Rest in Peace



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2007
    Posts
    2,899

    Default

    Yes, you are right, I shouldn't have said it's a waste. Doxy does help, especially in your mare's case where she can't finish the IV Tet. However, it just doesn't seem to be as effective in the long-term. It certainly wasn't for my gelding. Here's an outline of the study:

    In a Cornell University study published in 2005 (Veterinary Microbiology), ponies were experimentally infected with Lyme organisms by infected adult ticks. Twelve weeks later four ponies were assigned to each of three treatment groups, tetracycline, doxycycline or Ceftiofur for 28 days. A fourth group was left untreated. ELISA antibody titers dropped in all the treatment groups, but began to rise again after three months in three of the four doxycycline-treated ponies and two of four Ceftiofur treated. The ponies were necropsied five months after treatment.

    The untreated ponies and those that showed a rise in titer after treatment were confirmed to still be infected while there was no evidence of infection in the tetracycline-treated ponies or ponies receiving treatment with another antibiotic whose titers did not rise again.

    This study makes intravenous tetracycline the “gold standard” treatment for Lyme disease, but tetracycline is extremely damaging to tissues if it gets outside the vein. The treatment must be administered by a veterinarian. Oral doxycycline is much easier to give, but in that study a 28-day treatment was not sufficient to kill the organism in 75% of the ponies. It’s currently unknown whether longer treatment time with doxycycline might more effective.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    May. 23, 2002
    Location
    Mass./Southern California
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    1,853

    Default

    When you guys say tetra, are you using oxytet or ??
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 15, 2005
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    3,253

    Default

    When I read the Cornell study, I was amazed that they based their conclusions on only 4 ponies receiving IV tetracycline. Can you imagine if we based a human drug treatment plan for a common illness on just 4 humans? I don't believe the New England Journal would publish a study stating that we should treat all humans with urinary tract infections with IV tetracycline because 4 humans who received the IV did better than the group of 4 people who received a different oral antibiotic. Because of the Cornell "study", thousands of horses have received IV tetracycline.

    I would like to see another university repeat the study with more horses (not just ponies). I know no one wants to see horses put down for a study, but perhaps it could be done on horses who are headed to a slaughterhouse and would get an extra 4 months of life for the study. Maybe some other antibiotics could be added to the study. Ceftriaxone is an effective IV med for Lyme disease in humans, so I am surprised that ceftiofur did not work in the study of 4 ponies. I know ceftiofur is expensive, but I think it is an antibiotic that can be given by IM injection, and would be easier for all of us to administer ourselves.



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