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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2003
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    Wet and Windy Washington
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    Default Is there a market for anglo arab stallions?

    No, I don't have one

    But I'm curious as to whether there is a market for Angloarab stallions, I know there is someone on this board that breeds AA's.
    I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 1999
    Location
    Cypress, near Houston, Texas
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    8,537

    Default

    In all honesty, not in this country - yet. Seems the Anglo-Arab stallion is WAY more appreciated in Europe.
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 25, 2002
    Location
    Georgia
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    2,667

    Default

    There really should be! Especially for some of the wonderful WB mares that we have in North America.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 22, 2008
    Location
    Paris (France)
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    761

    Default

    Even in France where the French Anglo-Arab has a long and successful history, there is a very small market for a AA stallion.
    Because breeders think they are missing raw power and scope.
    But they favor AA mare crossed with powerful SF or WB.
    "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, And treat those two imposters just the same"
    Rudyard Kipling
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Quartz...26013000796803



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 1999
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    Cypress, near Houston, Texas
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by risingstarfarm View Post
    There really should be! Especially for some of the wonderful WB mares that we have in North America.
    I completely agree, but alas. Americans have so far not been much willing to accept them.
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2007
    Posts
    299

    Default

    I love the refinement and presence they add to the heavier less modern types. I don't think though, the the anglo arabs here have been bred to do the same thing here thoug, and that could be a large part of the factor that we don't see people breeding to the anglos. I have yet to see an anglo arabian in the states, bred in the states, compete at an international level in the show jumpers for instance. Not that they 'couldn't' do it, but they have not been aimed to that end. Take a look at a few of the European AA's... Bonaparte: http://www.hengststation-voelz.de/he...eaa/index.html

    Hermes d Authieux: http://www.gestuet-hellerholz.com/hermesdauthieux.html

    Bachus Z: http://www.harasdesaucels.com/uk/fic...ons/bachus.htm

    And all of those foundation bloodlines, Furioso II, Zeus, Inschallah, Ramzes

    These have played a vital role in creating the sporthorse we know today. I think there could be a significant market, but it has to be a horse that is in the spotlight and actually doing and producing something.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 1999
    Location
    Midland, NC, USA
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    7,269

    Default

    While there are "performance" arabs in the USA, they are heavily outnumbered by the 'non-performance' type, which also gets the majority of the press so the performance types are relatively unknown/unrecognized. Hence not a lot of demand. Also not real familiar with Arab rules but I think to show in Arab shows a half-arab has to be at LEAST half-arab, so even within the registry an AA stallion would only be breedable to Arab or AA mares... limiting the market further. (could be wrong about that though, I only read through the rulebook once years ago when someone wanted to breed an Arab mare to my TB stallion).

    Jennifer



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 3, 2002
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    it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
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    Default

    In my experience registration is partly an issue. My guy is not Anglo, but is 15/16ths Arab. Even though he is reg'd Arab, he's only technically reg'd "half" Arab, and only foals from a purebred mare can be reg'd. So foals out of any other type of mare must have another venue. They *do* now, RPSI, though I haven't kept him active thanks to the economy... but the reason I haven't, is because that did not get him one single mare. Go figure (granted, I have not advertised him heavily at ALL the past couple years as we've been concentrating on moving up the levels, but I have advertised locally/regionally.)

    Meg Hamilton raved about him and said he's the kind of stallion used in Europe for breed refinement... but Americans just don't seem to want to put the blood on top. And I think that is a huge factor. Many of the OX lines in WBs are Anglo STALLIONS. And for whatever reasons, over here we want to put the WB stallion on the OX or Arab mare... which works somewhat, but historically not as well. Sometimes the old timer sayings have some truth in them.

    Finally, I think size is a factor. While it's coming around a little, the US has a fascination with bigger-is-better. They see Arab in a pedigree and get a little squeamish, not realizing that generally (good) Arab contributes lovely bone. And of course if you're talking Anglo, the hybrid vigour can contribute even more... and by the F2 and F3 (which are fairly rare over here) you have quite a bit of size and predictability... but there's a stigma in much of the sporthorse world regardless...

    Just my opinion and observation from the fringes of Arab X Sporthorse breeding.
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2006
    Posts
    2,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdCharm View Post
    While there are "performance" arabs in the USA, they are heavily outnumbered by the 'non-performance' type, which also gets the majority of the press so the performance types are relatively unknown/unrecognized. Hence not a lot of demand. Also not real familiar with Arab rules but I think to show in Arab shows a half-arab has to be at LEAST half-arab, so even within the registry an AA stallion would only be breedable to Arab or AA mares... limiting the market further. (could be wrong about that though, I only read through the rulebook once years ago when someone wanted to breed an Arab mare to my TB stallion).

    Jennifer
    Actually Anglo Arabs have a different percentage/parentage requirement than half arabians.

    http://www.arabianhorses.org/registr...rules.asp#1003




  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2002
    Location
    Redlands, CA
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    7,773

    Default

    The French AA are a breed, not just an Arabian/TB cross.

    I have two kids by Routinier and they have two crosses to Inschallah and one to Zeus.

    One of them is out of a Ramiro granddaughter so that lines goes back to Ramzes. The other one is out of an imported Trakehner mare so of course she has plenty of ox back in her pedigree.

    People like AA in a pedigree but it has to be performance proven.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2003
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    Canada
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    Default

    Also the AA is preferred a little further back, so an AA stallion gets a whole breeding generation out of the way instead of going Arab to TB as one generation. IF it is a performance stallion, agreed. Hopefully it can jump in style.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
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    633

    Cool

    As has been said already, French AA's are a breed. They are prized for eventing and show jumping. They work wonderfully when crossed on some of the more heavy jumping mares, particulary the older type Selle Francais or Belgium jumping lines. They also have worked very well on Hanoverian mares.

    They impart super temperaments, make more modern types, and usually make excellent choices for a lighter stallion if you have a heavy bred jumping mare that needs lightening.

    Half arabs here in the States is another world. These are not the same. But for the moment the Half Arab registry is the only place to market a French AA stallion were it to come to the States. The warmblood breeders here in the States would not use it.



  13. #13
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    Aug. 9, 2007
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    9,179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonesta View Post
    In all honesty, not in this country - yet. Seems the Anglo-Arab stallion is WAY more appreciated in Europe.
    Yes, the europeans have long appreciated them. years ago there was a little grey "french anglo-arabian tb" who did pretty well--he was named Inschallah and he was graded into the Oldenburg stud in Germany. One of his sons, Ideal, is still alive on the west coast, i think.
    (and I have a great grandson of Inschallah.)



  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 27, 2007
    Location
    Maryland
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    318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by feather river View Post

    Half arabs here in the States is another world. These are not the same. But for the moment the Half Arab registry is the only place to market a French AA stallion were it to come to the States. The warmblood breeders here in the States would not use it.
    Not true!! As long as they meet the 25/75 blood parameters, they are registerable with the AA registry here. Baladin d"Oc at Va Tech is a prime example.
    An Anglo can be bred to a TB, an Arabian or another Anglo - and registered here - as long as the resulting foal meets 25/75.

    Check out www.anglo-arabians.com for more info.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    May. 27, 2007
    Location
    Maryland
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    Default

    Yes, there is a market!

    I have an Anglo stallion (Post Exchange) that was used quite a bit for hunter and event offspring. He's a beautiful mover and jumper, and really improved each mare. He is 50/50.

    Here's a confo photo: http://starstruckfarms.com/Images/pxconformation.jpeg

    and jumping video with a (very tall) Jr rider: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSMBYjo5ZyU

    I had another Anglo stallion (Quartermaster) that is deceased but was an event horse frequently used on draft x mares for refinement. He was out of a 50/50 Anglo mare and by Yankee Lad, so was 75% TB.

    Here he is: http://starstruckfarms.com/Images/Quarter.jpeg

    They were both bred by Ann McKay, you can see more of her Anglos here:

    http://www.anglo-arabians.com/AA_breedernews.htm#McKay

    More really nice Anglos bred by Laura Wood can be seen here, including her young 50/50 Anglo stallion Signal Bey.

    http://www.allanglos.com/Anglo_Arabians.html



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2007
    Location
    NW Louisiana
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    Default

    Yes but what people are saying is that you cannot use an AA stallion on a WB mare and have much in the way of registration options.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    May. 27, 2007
    Location
    Maryland
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    Default

    Baladin is Selle Francais, Hanoverian, Oldenburg and AA. He is 57.9% Arabian and the balance TB.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe they are accepted by DWB, SWB and Trakehner too.

    France also has AAC for those with less than 25% but more than 12.5% Arab (the rest being TB) and more recently AARC which allows an approved Warmblood to be bred to an Anglo.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus44 View Post
    Not true!! As long as they meet the 25/75 blood parameters, they are registerable with the AA registry here. Baladin d"Oc at Va Tech is a prime example.
    An Anglo can be bred to a TB, an Arabian or another Anglo - and registered here - as long as the resulting foal meets 25/75.

    Check out www.anglo-arabians.com for more info.
    Of course a cross of a TB onto an Arab mare can go in their half arabian registry here in the states. We know that.

    Baladin is an imported French AA stallion. He is not a US cross bred.

    So what is your point?



  19. #19
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    Oct. 28, 2007
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus44 View Post
    Baladin is Selle Francais, Hanoverian, Oldenburg and AA. He is 57.9% Arabian and the balance TB.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe they are accepted by DWB, SWB and Trakehner too.
    No he is not Selle Francais nor is he Hanoverian nor is he Oldenburg. He is a French AA stallion.

    He has been approved as a breeding stallion by several of these other breed programs.

    I have already stated that the French AA breed are very competitive in show jumping and more particularly in eventing. They make a nice stallion to put on heavier European jumping mares.

    What is your point?



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2003
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    Charles Town, WV
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    Default

    I think the point is pretty obvious. Someone said there were no registration possibilities for a foal by an AA stallion out of a WB mare in this country, but a mare bred to Baladin d'Oc could be registered with any of the named registries if the mare is also approved with them. Same for any AA, whether 1st generation or imported AA IF you meet the requirements for conformation, type, gaits and meet the registries performance requirements. That's true of any stallion of approved bloodlines, not just AA. And Baladin d'Oc has produced some pretty nice foals for those registries!
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
    Now apparently completely invisible!



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