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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2007
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    523

    Default What do you feed your Yearlings? Need nutrition help.

    I am moving my yearling from the breeders farm where she was born to a new farm closer to my house where I can work with her on a more day to day basis. It has brought up the question of feed.

    Currently, she is fed Pilgrims Equine Endurance, it is an 11% protein because vet #1 said she needed to be on a lower protein because she has an OCD lesion in her left stifle. Vet #1 also wanted her on a CAL Density.

    Vet #2 is now questioning the lower protein and the CAL Density.

    My yearling is a Holstiener, if that makes any difference.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2003
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    The good 'ole State of denial
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    5,064

    Default

    Mine have 24/7 alfalfa/orchard mix hay
    am/pm get a mix of barley, beet pulp, wheat bran, linseed meal, and vit/mineral supplement. I've found it hard to get a good Cal/Phos ratio -falf and pulp is high in calcium, so I added the barley/bran/linseed to get the Phos to a decent balance.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    8,281

    Default

    I feed a ration balancer (Progressive Nutrition's Grass Balancer), a fat supplement or oats if needed for more calories, good quality grass or mixed hay and free choice minerals. This is the same program (with other brands of balancers) that I have fed since 1998.

    Most vets are not nutitionists. Protein is not the problem. Too many carbs, inactivity, and possibly genetics is the reason behind most ocd. Your youngster needs the basics of good nutrition for a growing horse, which includes adequate and high quality protein, minerals and vitamins. Feeding an adult low protein ration does not meet those needs.

    If I had your youngster, I'd put her on my feeding program and probably add Rejuvenaide or Foal Aide mineral supplement to try to fix the ocd. An ocd can sometimes disappear by age three with proper nutrition and good management. Good luck!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2003
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, VA
    Posts
    1,356

    Default

    Ditto HAF's post. I feed my youngsters PN Grass Ration Balancer and PN's Growth and oats for extra calories. I'm cutting back on the extra calories now that the grass is coming in well. You might want to have your hay tested and see if there are any mineral unbalances and then supplement. But protein is not the problem. That is an OLD idea that many still follow.

    by the way, Progressive Nutrition will send someone out to your farm to test your hay and evaluate your horse and feeding program. Its free and worthwhile.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2003
    Location
    Charles Town, WV
    Posts
    6,637

    Default

    What HAF and Avezan said, PLUS the reason that protein is not the problem is that young, growing horses NEED protein in order to grow - DUH! - what on earth do these non-nutritionist vets think they grow on? Air??? To recommend an 11% protein feed for a growing youngster is incomprehensible to me. For whatever 'grain' or ration balancer you feed the protein content is diluted by the protein content in the hay. For example, if you feed 4 lbs of an 11% protein feed, combined with 15 lbs of 7% grass hay, then you are feeding .44 lbs protein for the grain, plus 1.05 lbs of protein for the hay, for a total protein concentration of 0.078% protein. Yes, if you really do the math, you need to feed a certain weight of protein (digestible protein at that), but 1.49 lbs per 19 lbs of feed is not enough for proper growth and can cause all kinds of other problems.
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
    Now apparently completely invisible!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    16,684

    Default

    I am feeding similarly to Okggo. I feed good quality grass hay, alfalfa pellets, rice bran, flax...oat only if needed and a mineral supplement custom ordered for our farm that add phosphorus, magnesium, copper and zinc. No commercial feed out there to include ration balancers really "balanced" the minerals in my situation so you can't just throw something like that at them and assume all is well...particularly if you already have a problem. You should have your hay and forage analyzyed and either choose a feed that balances it properly or a good supplement.

    On protein, I can give enough protein with alfalfa pellets for all classes of growing horses. If you do need more, you can add Tri Amino or Whey powder...but I doubt you will need to. It's not % of protein that matter but rather, the quanitity in grams. Again, without a hay analysis, you are just guessing.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2003
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    The good 'ole State of denial
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    If you do need more, you can add Tri Amino or Whey powder...but I doubt you will need to. It's not % of protein that matter but rather, the quanitity in grams. Again, without a hay analysis, you are just guessing.
    Adding to that list, linseed meal is a great source, as is non-fat dry milk as well



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2007
    Posts
    299

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by okggo View Post
    Adding to that list, linseed meal is a great source, as is non-fat dry milk as well
    Just a quick ?...do you find any horses have an issue with the lactose from cows milk using the dry milk?? I've never used it before but was thinking of feeding my broodies a milk replacer or similar supplement while lactating b/c they are leaching and producing those vits/mins from their own body.



  9. #9
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    Aug. 26, 2003
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    The good 'ole State of denial
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    Crosswind - I haven't used it on broodmares yet as I can get the linseed meal handily; however, my vet used to recommend it for coats on show horses and I have fed it to past horses. None ever had a problem with it. I would not hesitate to use it again.

    You can buy it in bulk on-line through emergency relief suppliers (like hurricanes and such), if you are interested I can hunt down the link I had for the huge pails they sell...

    Edited to add - here is the link (they also have fortified) http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_...Non-Fat%20Milk



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,102

    Default

    I feed the same as HAF, Avezan and Tiki. Progressive grass balancer, grass hay and pasture. I add oats or Progressive's Envision if needed. Usually when I have a lactating mare or when the pasture is gone.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2007
    Posts
    523

    Default

    I just did a search for Progressive grass balancer, this is what I came up with:
    http://www.prognutrition.com/pagrassformula.html

    Is that what you guys are referring to?



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2005
    Location
    Michigan
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    1,102



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2007
    Posts
    523

    Default

    Wow well that says it is a 30% protein, that is much different than what Vet #1 told me. But goes along with what vet #2 told me as far as cautioning against stunting her growth. Does anyone that has a yearling with OCD feed or have heard of feeding CAL Density?

    And can you tell me more about Rejuvenaide and Foal Aide HAF, and why and how it helps with OCD's.

    Please don't think I'm a dummy, I just want to do right by my girl, and want her to grow up strong and healthy!



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2003
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, VA
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    1,356

    Default

    Dont' let the 30% protein scare you. The ration balancer is meant to be fed at the rate of 1/3 of their (PN's) other feeds. So if you feed 3 scoops of a 10% protein feed or 1 scoop of the 30% feed, you are feeding the same *amount* of protein. The Rejuvenaide is designed to bring the levels of vitamins/minerals/amino acids up to the appropriate level quickly. It is a very concentrated dose of just these things. If you switch to PN's ration balancer, you might want to give Rejuvenaide for a while to help get everything balanced faster. Then you can stop and just feed the appropriate amount of their feeds. If you are interested, I do strongly recommend you call the company and see if there is a rep nearby that can come and see you. I did not have a PN feed dealer in my area, but the rep that services my area would deliver my feed to my barn! I was just floored with their customer service. They will test your hay to see what the protein levels are and the other trace mineral ratios and make a recommendation based on that. OCD can be caused by improper balance in the vit/min/AA ratios, so getting them on a good program can help, if the cause was nutritional. Of course, it can be caused by other things, but this way you are ruling out nutritional causes. Good luck!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2007
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    523

    Default

    Thank you thank you thank you.

    One more thing (for now), in laments terms, I feed my filly 3/4 of a coffee can of her current feed twice a day. If you are feeding 1 scoop of this ration balancer, what size scoop is that, and how often a day?

    Also I know my older mare cannot switch feeding programs quickly she must be weaned from one to the other slowly. How slow do you take a change with a youngster?

    I will look to see if there is someone close that can come analyze the hay we feed.

    I really do, as always, appreciate the help of all you folks on the COTH!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2004
    Posts
    3,220

    Default

    Progressive, as other companies with balancers usually do, will give you a green cup that sizes the feed for you.

    I have followed this PN grass balancer, grass hay, alfalfa cubes in the winter, oats and minerals feeding program and my kids have nice slow steady growth. And they look great.

    I go about half and half on the old/new feed for about a week. It allows the gut to establish new flora for digesting the feed.

    I give 1 1/2 of the cup of balancer a.m. and p.m. It's expensive but you're not throwing 10 lbs of sweet feed at them twice a day, it goes a long way. I can't ever imagine feeding that to any horse ever again now.

    We have always put our money into having a surplus of good hay on hand. Knock on wood, I have never had a colic b/c I free feed hay and don't overdose them on grain.
    The truth is what you can get other people to believe.

    -- Tommy Smothers



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2007
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    523

    Default

    Ok I guess I lied before when I said I had one more question. I have more.....

    Those of you that said you feed oats for extra calories, are you just feeding regular plain old rolled oats? Nothing fancy or added in them.

    This is just a thought that has been bugging my all night. A few months ago there was an article in Practical Horseman that talked about picking the right feed for your horses. It said start with the feed that is geared toward your horse, IE: old horse/equine sr, or yearling/equine jr, or performance horse/ultium. However when I fed my old mare equine sr she continued to not gain weight and stay thin. It sounds apparent that no one on here feeds equine jr to your yearlings. So why don't these companies change their feed to actually work what they are geared for?



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 13, 2008
    Posts
    53

    Default You can always ask Don at Progressive too!

    If you so desire, you can email Don at Progressive and provide them with info regarding your youngster (age-weight-body score etc) and they can help you choose a good course of action. I had filly showing signs of joint problems (epiphysitis -fetlock) at early age - and possible genetic predisposition for OCD. Don and staff worked with me (and vets with good knowledge at Wisconsin Equine Clinic). Grass balancer, Adaquan 1 X month, Rejuvenaide and they even performed hay analysis for me. I just got her 2 yr old "screening" xrays and no OCDs - nice clean joints. Good luck!



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2003
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    The good 'ole State of denial
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Katy9532 View Post
    Ok I guess I lied before when I said I had one more question. I have more.....

    Those of you that said you feed oats for extra calories, are you just feeding regular plain old rolled oats? Nothing fancy or added in them.

    This is just a thought that has been bugging my all night. A few months ago there was an article in Practical Horseman that talked about picking the right feed for your horses. It said start with the feed that is geared toward your horse, IE: old horse/equine sr, or yearling/equine jr, or performance horse/ultium. However when I fed my old mare equine sr she continued to not gain weight and stay thin. It sounds apparent that no one on here feeds equine jr to your yearlings. So why don't these companies change their feed to actually work what they are geared for?
    I was feeding crimped oats and switched to crimped barley straight outta the bag.

    The problem isn't the feed, it's the variations in needs/environment/sensitivities. NO FEED is one size fits all, period, no matter who claims it to be. The trick is (if you are motivated and so inclined) to get your hay/forage tested and go from there until you get the proper vit/min/aa/prot for your stock dependant on their age, weight, work load, etc.

    Most people don't have that luxury to analyze and custom mix, so they go with the pre-bagged feeds and ration balancers designed to fit most horses in that particular category. Many/most do fine that way, for some they have ingredient sensitivities, they are deficient in certain vit/min (think selenium deficient areas), etc.

    http://nrc88.nas.edu/nrh/ this is a great link and the corresponding book a wonderful reference to help educate on the balances necessary.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2007
    Posts
    523

    Default

    Sent Don and email, we will see what happens.



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