Question about liver chestnut color updated with foal pics
My mare who is a liver chestnut just gave birth a a chestnut filly. I am noticing that the pigment around her eyes is very differnt from other foals I have seen. Also the color of her eyes seems unsual as well. It reminds us of what a chocolate lab puppy's would look like. I am amazed at how light her color is too. I will try to get better pics today to show what I am seeing. My question is will Liver Chestnut foal be born like this and shed out to be a darker color? She is the first chestnut we have every foaled out so I am not familiar if this is normal for regular ol' chestnut?
We were convinced that Della Joia Bella , our 2008 Consul-Condios filly, was going to be a liver chestnut She was a livery-chestnut color with dark rings around her eyes very early on. Those more knowledgeable than we said she would be a dark brown like her dam and sire- that foals will darken with age and that she would match the racoon eyes. They were right--she is a lovely chocolate brown now with four whites and a star!
All my pics from birth turned out dark. But I will take some today to show. Her mom is the darkest Liver chestnut I have ever seen in person. She was missing 1/3 of her hair when I got her and what she had was dull. I clipped her thinking she had mange or lice. It turned out she had loss all her hair from stress. It has grown back in and almost looks black!!! I have to admit Liver chestnut is by far one of my favorite colors!!!
I will post some pics as soon as I get some this afternoon.
Years ago I had a foal out of a chestnut mare and a liver chestnut stallion. The foal was born a light chestnut color but as she started shedding what a surprise. The color under the foal coat was almost black. She is a dark liver chestnut with dapples. She's had 3 foals but only one may be liver--will have to check with her owner-- on her registration papers she was listed as chestnut but may turn liver chestnut.
http://www.talloaksfarm.net ---"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts." --- Winston Churchill
My mare, Mimosa, is by a black stallion (Happy Hour) out of a dark red chestnut mare - as a weanling she shed out to a dark chocolate "Hershey" bar color, then as a yearling was a lighter color till she was three, where she started to darken again and now, as a heavily pregnant 7 year old mare, is her darkest, almost black in places but dapples showing through - definitely has that bloom! Her coming two year old chestnut daughter, Lucy, also by a black stallion (Rosario) also shed out chocolate as a weanling, but was nearly a palomino color as a yearling - much lighter then her dam at the same age, so I was thinking she was not really a liver chestnut. However I noticed this year, that she too is shedding out much darker and where she has a patch or two of hair missing from her pasture pals, those too grow in very dark. She out to turn out quite flashy if she does continue to dark like her dam, as unlike her dam, her mane and tail are profuse with white hair - I would quite say flaxen, more a mix of white and light red like a strawberry blonde - I look forward to seeing how she looks as a three year old!
Liver chestnut does seem to be an ellusive color - I am curious about the color changes that my two have gone through growing up and why such shade variations until they mature? I am hoping for a bay foal this time from Mimi (Bay sire - North Forks Cardi), but if I do get another liver with a bit of chrome, that will do too - it is such a beautiful rich color!
Both Mimi and Lucy can be seen in the photos on my signature line - you can see the color changes they have gone through - but both as newborn foals, as do most chestnuts, have a slightly "pinkish" tinge around their eyes as newborns that darken within a few days.
Researchers noticed the same thing you did, OP, and thought that perhaps liver chestnut was related to the chocolate colors found in dogs and cats and cows. In those species, the light-skinned, light-eyed brown coats are caused by mutations on the TYRP1 gene. This is not the case with liver chestnut horses, or any known horse coat color, for that matter.
Others can speak better about this, but I understood that many chestnuts were born with pinkish skin.
I do love liver chestnuts
Disclaimer: My mom told me that people might look at my name and think I had an addiction other than horses. I don't; his name was Bravado.
Liver chestnut in my opinion is the most elusive color to get.
And my absolute favorite.
Even harder and more incredible is a dark liver with a flaxen mane and tail. I remember a photo of a georgous Morgan? Arab? that was that color. WOW!
My Hanoverian stallion is liver. I love his color. He also has black spots in his coat, and lots of black mane and tail hairs. When his first filly was born, she looked to be a regular chestnut, but after a month or so, we began to see the black/dark mane and tail hairs, then the dark around the eyes.
The first photo is the sire, Oliver, then the filly as she changed. You can see the dark line in the mane as it was growing in the new darker color.
Genetically, although Ollie is by a bay stallion, out of a bay mare, I don't believe he inherited a bay allele. He has always (so far) sired black out of black mares (guess they didn't have, or didn't pass a chestnut gene), and often black out of bay mares too.
Last edited by Fairview Horse Center; Apr. 18, 2009 at 02:40 PM.
You give me hope, Darlyn! My gorgeous liver chestnut mare has had four foals that I have owned (bought her bred back with a filly at side, now I have bred her twice since). Two foals were sorrel and one bay -- this year's "looks" sorrel too. But I'd be delighted if he were to shed out darker.
He was born 2/28 with a very VERY heavy coat. I have a filly born 2/6 who never had the coat that this boy has! I may have to clip him to keep him cool, if he doesn't start shedding it himself. Right now it is light sorrel. We shall see!
Arrange whatever pieces come your way. - Virginia Woolf
Did you know that if you say the word "GULLIBLE" really softly, it sounds like "ORANGES"?
My chestnut mare (who is as red as the day is long) was born with a lighter coat, pale skin and <barf> reddish eyes. It was UGLY!! So I say, who knows?? Then again, judging by the math and how she looked, I think she needed to bake another week or so...we had three mares foal in one night, and she was last. I think the dam suffered from peer pressure!
It does seem like chestnut babies always look like they have a 'reddish' tint to their eyes and skin around them - washed out is a good way to put it.
Our Donatelli filly last year out of our liver chestnut Ideal mare was a funny peachy chestnut and shed out liver. When she started shedding on her face she had the dark rings around her eyes as a clue. Her full brother this year is not the same color at birth (but chestnut also) and so we think he may stay a red chestnut (darn it)
I think most liver chestnuts are born fairly light.
I had a liver TB broodmare for years. Her first foal was also liver, born a very light chestnut ( sorrel), as I recall the stud was bay. Her second foal, by a gray stud, was born the oddest color- very light with darker points... not a buckskin look at all, more like a Siamese cat. He ( of course) eventually grayed- a brown based gray though. Her next foal was by the same stud, born the same buff color as her brother without the points. She was also gray. Her last foal was a bright chestnut, by a bay stud. He does have a few darker liver colored patches.
We own a liver chestnut welsh cob stallion who throws foals bright chestnut when they are born and they will change to liver. He was the same way when he was born I love the color!!! Probably one of my favorites, along with Seal Brown
Malteser Gold is in our stallion's pedigree. Don't know if there is much likelyhood (a few generations down the line) of our boy producing a foal in that beautiful faxen chestnut color, but I would love it if he did!