[gardencreekfarm]

1

[JoZ]

If the economy (particularly the HORSE market) were better, such that crossbreds were a good gamble, I think pintaloosas would be a fun cross to pursue.

First and foremost, the physical types of the Paint and Appy parents aren't too dissimilar. The foal's conformation (provided that the necessary care was put into the choices) could be great for the same disciplines enjoyed by the two breeds.

But for the time being I'll content myself with my young gelding Chaser, who LOOKS like a pintaloosa -- he is registered Paint but homozygous for tobiano, which gave him the smaller "pawprint" spots that look to me like Appy markings.

[camohn]

I would never breed an Appy to a tobiano as *THE* ugliest horse coat pattern I ever saw was such a critter. If the coat patterns had been blended maybe it would not have been so bad.....but this horse looked like someone cut an leopard appy and a tobi in half........it had the back half of an Appy with the front half of a tobiano.....resulting in the oddest looking horse I have ever seen............it was like someone literally drew a line around the middle of the horse sticking the front half of a tobi to the back half of an appy.
Added: I have fears that this might happen here....my hubby has Appy mares and I have a Paint stallion. If anyone gets loose..........at least he has varnish/roan type Appys and the stallion is a sabino overo. .....so an accident would probably look more roan-ish....

[alliekat]

Oh I like the last one you link to Gardencreekfarm.
How about this one I found surfing the internet.
http://members.tripod.com/spottedhorses/FS29.jpg

[sid]

I had one of the most beautiful crosses. Didn't breed him, but owned him. Blue roan appy + black tobiano paint. I suspect he had TB in him as he was very "typey" as a sport horse.

His markings were stunning. Fabulous tobiano markings, but his solid areas were blue/snowflake roan. If I could have duplicated him I would have tried, but I think these crosses may be a crap shoot.

He lived to his mid 40's btw...hybrid vigor, I guess. Some people on this BB remember him from the Great Falls area as "Joey" as a younger schoolie...one of Peter Foley's favorites.

[busybee]

I've never heard of pintaloosas. Do people breed for them? They certainly are different looking.

[Sonesta]

I know you don't want to hear this and I don't print it to hurt your feelings, but this is totally irresponsible breeding.

Breeding an Appaloosa to a paint or pinto is highly frowned upon for reason that both colorings can be hidden in the other and then spring up at the oddest times. They cannot be registered with any registery. There is NO predictability of pattern and the result is a grade mutt that may well end up unwanted by anyone.

[sid]

Sonesta..I absolutely agree with you. BUT...I couldn't resist posting that I wound up with a real beauty. I'm sure he was a freak. He was a freak in every way...as to his endurance, his look and how long he lived. If I thought I could recreate him I would have have embarked on breeding for his look and type. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I'm a science-head and understand genetics a bit and understood not to even go there.

Didn't mean to imply in my post that I thought pursuing the cross was the best course in breeding endeavors (wink!). Just proud of my old man who I miss to this day.

[Tango14]

I know you don't want to hear this and I don't print it to hurt your feelings, but this is totally irresponsible breeding.

Breeding an Appaloosa to a paint or pinto is highly frowned upon for reason that both colorings can be hidden in the other and then spring up at the oddest times. They cannot be registered with any registery. There is NO predictability of pattern and the result is a grade mutt that may well end up unwanted by anyone.

Exactly what Sonesta said. And, to get that one 'nice' horse plenty ugly mongrels are produced with no hope of finding a decent home. That aside, what's the point as more often than not if the foal is born with Appaloosas 'spots' it loses them over time for some reason. The ones I've seen have been real ugly non-descript looking horses with dodgy conformation.

OP, I really do not want to be rude but since you brought it up I'm sure you expect comments from both sides. You said you didn't give the colour a thought until recently. IMO, that's completely irresponsible. When you're breeding anything you should consider every aspect of it. To not do so is selfish. You also say that you chose the sire for his conformation. So there weren't any solid coloured stallions who could meet your expectations?
Let me put it this way, I would never purchase a horse from a breeder who showed irresponsible and thoughtless breeding practises. JMHO.

[JB]

I've never heard of pintaloosas. Do people breed for them? They certainly are different looking.

People who breed either Appys or Paints/Pintos would never cross the two. For one, each registry does not allow any blood from the other. As mentioned, it's too variable as to whether one will hide and then crop out on a future generation.

But yes, there are some "backyard" breeders who think it's cool to try to produce a different type of horse, and will breed any "different" colors/patterns they can get their hands on.

Some of the appy/pinto crosses, displaying both, can look really, really cool. But mostly they end up looking like someone just threw a paint can at them.

[twofatponies]

I know it's not PC, but as someone whose fave cat color is calico, and whose fave dog color is blue merle, I love a horse that looks like someone threw a can of paint on it! Nonetheless my actual horses are a plain bay and a plain seal brown - purchased for the useability, not their color. Oh well.

[SilverSpringFarm]

Ok so I know that I will probably get fussed at for this but I bred my Appy mare to a wonderful Sporthorse Tobiano Homozygous Stallion on purpose.

Sounds to me like the deed has already been done. Not really much point in trying to talk the OP out of it now.

OP, I truly hope you get an attractive and athletic foal out of the cross. If you can give this foal a forever home and you don't care about re-sale value then it's your right as a horse owner to breed for what you want.

[Tango14]

Sounds to me like the deed has already been done. Not really much point in trying to talk the OP out of it now.

OP, I truly hope you get an attractive and athletic foal out of the cross. If you can give this foal a forever home and you don't care about re-sale value then it's your right as a horse owner to breed for what you want.

Problem is, none of us know what our future holds so a 'forever home' isn't what it used to be

ps. I don't think anyone's trying to convince the OP not to do it because it is too late, but hopefully a newby will think twice....

[JB]

I know it's not PC, but as someone whose fave cat color is calico, and whose fave dog color is blue merle, I love a horse that looks like someone threw a can of paint on it! Nonetheless my actual horses are a plain bay and a plain seal brown - purchased for the useability, not their color. Oh well.

Oh I love the calic-cats and the tortis, my absolutely favorite But some pintaloosas really, really look like a color mix gone wrong

[SilverSpringFarm]

Problem is, none of us know what our future holds so a 'forever home' isn't what it used to be

That's precisely why I said "If".

Yes, it is extremely rare for someone to own a horse from birth to death but I do know a handful of people that have done it. I don't know anything about the OP. I'm not fit to make a prediction as to whether or not she will ensure this foal has an excellent home for the next 30 years, but really who can predict that for any foal, even one with papers?

I'm not saying it's the kind of breeding choice I would have made by any means, but by far the vast majority of the overpopulation problem stems from sub-par registered stock or racing stock. (AQHA, APHA, TB) If the OP's mare is a high-quality mare and the stallion is a high quality stallion then I can be okay with her choice. To each his own.

[sspeight]

I know it's not PC, but as someone whose fave cat color is calico, and whose fave dog color is blue merle, I love a horse that looks like someone threw a can of paint on it! Nonetheless my actual horses are a plain bay and a plain seal brown - purchased for the useability, not their color. Oh well.

A bit off topic, but just so you know, Aussie genetics are completely different. Black coat color is dominant to red coat color and the merle coat pattern is dominant to a solid coat pattern. Completely different genes. Homozygous merles are born deaf and blind, a great reason for people not to breed merle to merle, but I have found that some great, amazing dogs have come from merle to merle crosses. You just have to be ready to deal with the consequences of such a cross.

[belambi]

Totally irresponsible.

However.. not nearly as totally irresponsible as the idiots who are breeding pintaloosas using overo. (as in real overo OLWS pos).

The various appaloosa associations around the world have thankfully taken action to prevent the use of OLWS pos qhs and Tbs in app breeding.. What is so amazing is that there are people in the world who felt that this would be an acceptable cross!

[webmistress32]

I have appaloosas and love them. however I wouldn't go out of my way to look for an app crossed with anything, most especially not one crossed with a paint.

[JB]

Totally irresponsible.

However.. not nearly as totally irresponsible as the idiots who are breeding pintaloosas using overo. (as in real overo OLWS pos).

The various appaloosa associations around the world have thankfully taken action to prevent the use of OLWS pos qhs and Tbs in app breeding.. What is so amazing is that there are people in the world who felt that this would be an acceptable cross!

Maybe I'm not understanding your point here, so forgive me if that's the case

But OLWS is absolutely fine in the heterozygous form.

Now if you are talking about the LWO issue, homozygous Frame, then absolutely that's an issue, and should be taken into account ANY time there is a horse who could possibly be OLWS positive, whether he shows it or not. There are AQHA horses who are solid but who are N/O and should NOT be bred to any other N/O horse, whether that's an appy or TB or QH or Paint or anything, regardless of anything else that's desirable or not.

[Sonesta]

Maybe I'm not understanding your point here, so forgive me if that's the case

But OLWS is absolutely fine in the heterozygous form.

Now if you are talking about the LWO issue, homozygous Frame, then absolutely that's an issue, and should be taken into account ANY time there is a horse who could possibly be OLWS positive, whether he shows it or not. There are AQHA horses who are solid but who are N/O and should NOT be bred to any other N/O horse, whether that's an appy or TB or QH or Paint or anything, regardless of anything else that's desirable or not.

I think the point is that the overo gene might be hidden amidst the appy genes and if you didn't know it was there and bred to another that carried that gene, the possibilities of a lethal white foal increases.