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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
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    1,206

    Default Dealing with BOs...

    (No Charlotte, this is not directed at you )

    I'm not really having trouble dealing with my BOs, but am trying to find some info to help them understand why I'm feeding and caring for my pony like I am. She's IR/Cushings and is slender. Right now, she's too skinny and I'm dealign with the vet to see what we can do for her, rebalancing her diet, etc...

    However, I only worm her once a year (at most, do fecals more often, though). I don't feed long stem hay, only balanced hay cubes. She's getting her teeth done this coming month. So, she's taken care of by my vets standards, but she's not taken care of to the common horseowner standards. She goes out to pasture once a week, sometimes muzzled, sometimes not, depends on where I turn her out.

    Anyone have some kind of paper that explains the care of a cushings horse a little more? Wormer causes her sore feet, hay causes sore feet, etc... I'm trying to do my best by this little mare, and I don't want to cause problems with my BO, just want everyone to understand where we're coming from with her care.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,227

    Default

    Have you asked your vet?
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 24, 2009
    Location
    SE Pennsylvania
    Posts
    210

    Default

    Join the Yahoo Equine Cushings group. The have files full of useful information about IR and Cushings.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,206

    Default

    I'm a member of the cushings group, but they don't have one concise article on the whole shebang of wormers, vaccines, food, etc... That's what I'm looking for.

    My vet will back me, and I could give them his number, but I hate to bring him into it at this point.

    More than anything I'd like them to understand and maybe be able to offer me some suggestions. She has lost weight this year, I've done what I know to do, and I'm lost. These guys have experience with IR, but not with Cushings and Chronic Laminitis.

    Steph



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,406

    Default

    when you say skinny how skinny is skinny
    can you post a pic of your mare
    horses and ponies that have chronic lamintus issues have to have control diets
    and often cushings is part plus often have diabetic issues

    how old is the pony as it can all come with age , what you have to look at and this is going to sound really harsh is her quality of life
    being stuck in everyday all day and only being let out in a field once aweek
    isnt a good quality life

    depending on how bad her chronic lamintus is which sounds really bad
    then you might have to hae her pts as shes in constant pain which can also make ahorse lose weigth



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar. 29, 2003
    Posts
    1,382

    Default

    I'm kind of wandering down the same train of thought as gls - and at the risk of sticking my neck out a bit too far, I wonder as well about her quality of life at this point. I understand Cushing's horses require really specialized care, but only getting turned out once a week kind of puts up a red flag for me.
    However, as you're doing what your vet has prescribed perhaps you could get a sort of "doctors note" from him/her outlining their thoughts and treatment and hand it to your BO? That may help.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,206

    Default

    She has a dirt run, so she's 'out'. She goes out in the big pasture on the weekends, sometimes through the week if I get home when it's still light.

    She's a body score of 4 - 4.5.

    She's never been unhappy being alone before, and she's spent 7 years in dry lots, mostly alone.

    Will put photos from yesterday up on Webshots and post a link.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 30, 2007
    Posts
    3,232

    Default

    Is she on Pergolide? Sometimes a dosage adjustment is needed if they seem to be losing weight. Also, if she starts really losing weight, it can sometimes indicate hyperlipidemia (though it doesn't sound like it). I am no expert, just going back to thinking about different issues I encountered in my travels with Cushings.
    It IS hard trying to explain things to people who don't "get" it....I explained it to my old BO that it was kind of like diabetes - some things are safer than others, and giving out treats etc would be like taking a diabetic kid to a candy store. I used to encourage her hay cubes for treats if anyone wanted to give her something.
    One of the hardest things is when people start second guessing or "deciding" for you....and some of their comments can be very hurtful, especially if they aren't willing to think or see outside of the box of conventional horsekeeping. If your mare is happy, well cared for and in the best health you can help her have, bravo. There is no kindness in doing what works for a normal horse because people are fixed in their ideas. Inviting them to be present for your vet's next visit could be an option too.
    Dee
    Founder of the I LOFF my worrywart TB clique!
    Official member of the "I Sing Silly Songs to My Animals!" Clique
    http://wilddiamondintherough.blogspot.ca/



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,206



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,406

    Default

    shes not skinny shes to fat that why shes keeps getting lamintus and chornic lamintus
    as you havent got controled feeding of grasses
    you putting out on the grass for a day in a week or all week end so whats happening is she gorging herself your grass is lush and rich looking so the sugar contents high
    shes needs to come of it all together and stabled with one slce of hay morning and night
    the muddy patch shes in isnt doing any favours either for her as to wet and boggy which wont help her feet it needs to be dry

    she needs to come in the when shes sound and due to go back out again dont suff her out all day or at weekends
    shes not alone as she can see her feild mates easily from her muddy patch
    you need a qualifed farrier to access her feet, and if nessacary and in pain then call the vet
    she has to be on a controlled strict diet

    letting her gorge herself for a whole day or week ends is making her matabolism play up
    ie making more ressitant than you think

    do not feed her any grian or any kind of nut as its a complete foodstuffs
    feed low choice hay so not much protein and sugar levels - get your hay tested
    but start her off on one section morning and one at night shes got to lose some more weight as shes to fat and obesed is what can cause most lamintus in horses
    and makre sure her water is clean and she has plenty of it

    i will stress get a proper farrier in to access the damaged with the vet so they can do some xrays and see how bad her feet are do not get a trimmer as they cant work with vets as they not qualified to so it has to be a farrier go here www.horseshoes.com
    Last edited by goeslikestink; Mar. 31, 2009 at 06:26 PM.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    May. 3, 2006
    Posts
    11,568

    Default

    Well the photos you posted are impossible to judge her weight.

    It would be helpful if at least it were daylight and you got somewhere close to the horse and took decent lateral and hind view.

    Anyway the best advice you could get is to phone your vet and discuss the fact that you need a full care plan to help you manage the horse



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2001
    Location
    Alaska. Not in an Igloo.
    Posts
    8,995

    Default

    It sounds like the OP has the horse's situation under control- moreso is just looking for published information to explain to her BO/BM/whatever about WHY she does things they way she does, b/c they have no Cushings experience.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,227

    Default

    As a BO I really do not understand why you would not pay to have your vet give consultation and instruction for your horse to the person you have caring for it.

    As a BO I am also very suspect of owners who read something on the internet and decides that is what is best for their horse. Owners do not always have a good grasp on the intricacies of providing the best care for their horse. I have had owners here that will want to change grain, schedules, supplements, hoof angles, etc at the drop of the hat because they had the impression from something they heard/read that it would be best for the horse. I however have to clean up the mess after an owner has gone off half cocked with only a portion of the information required to make a good decision.

    So my thought is that the both the BO and you only wants what is best for your horse. Since he/she spends more time with your horse than you do they might feel that your IR group or the internet is not as qualified to address your horses needs as the vet is.


    Since the horses condition speak volumes of your BO - I would be concerned that you are not on the right track. Therefore a Vet consult with owner and BO present is called for. In the best interests of your horse of course!

    I know I would not compromise on that detail.
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,227

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by StefffiC View Post
    This horse is a 7+ NOT a 4 - 4.5

    Quote Originally Posted by StefffiC View Post

    Star in happier times More Happy Times As a Dressage Horse

    She just looks unhappy in the newer photos...
    This horse is obese in these pictures - notice the fat crease down her back - not healthy!
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2007
    Location
    Hampshire, IL
    Posts
    778

    Default

    This horse is a 7+ NOT a 4 - 4.5
    I'm not seein' it

    she looks pretty good to me.

    I have an IR/cushings horse here.

    they are tough to care for.

    your BO should be glad you're handling it and not her.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,406

    Default

    iam and i can see what woody sees shes fat not skinny
    whe you said happier days shes was obesed then as fat fat so now shes lost a bit you think shes skinny but shes not shes still fat



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2008
    Posts
    140

    Default

    It's a bit off-putting to have a post titled "Dealing with BOs" (emph added), since you immediately state that you aren't currently experiencing any real issues.

    Why wouldn't you feel fortunate to have a BO who cared to communicate with you about your horse's care and well-being?

    And *why* in the world would you hesitate to involve your vet and BO in discussion and agreement about her care? They are both compensated professionals with different roles to play in managing your horse's well-being.

    FWIW, I warrant that the typical BO is more interested in timely, accurate information from your horse's primary care provider than being handed a bunch of website print offs they probably already have bookmarked.

    To me, the term "deal with" implies a hassle and harangue in the making. Hope that isn't where you're headed since you yourself state there's currently no real trouble.

    Did you mean more; "educate" your BOs or "collaborate better with" BOs? Internet stuff is so easily lost in translation, eh?

    Good luck and best wishes with your horse's ongoing management.
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it. - GK Chesterton



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,227

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev View Post
    FWIW, I warrant that the typical BO is more interested in timely, accurate information from your horse's primary care provider than being handed a bunch of website print offs they probably already have bookmarked.
    Amen!
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov. 3, 2004
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    2,098

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by StefffiC View Post
    (No Charlotte, this is not directed at you )

    I'm not really having trouble dealing with my BOs, but am trying to find some info to help them understand why I'm feeding and caring for my pony like I am. She's IR/Cushings and is slender. Right now, she's too skinny and I'm dealign with the vet to see what we can do for her, rebalancing her diet, etc...

    However, I only worm her once a year (at most, do fecals more often, though). I don't feed long stem hay, only balanced hay cubes. She's getting her teeth done this coming month. So, she's taken care of by my vets standards, but she's not taken care of to the common horseowner standards. She goes out to pasture once a week, sometimes muzzled, sometimes not, depends on where I turn her out.

    Anyone have some kind of paper that explains the care of a cushings horse a little more? Wormer causes her sore feet, hay causes sore feet, etc... I'm trying to do my best by this little mare, and I don't want to cause problems with my BO, just want everyone to understand where we're coming from with her care.
    Invite your barn owner next time you have a consult with your Vet so they can be in on the discussion and plan of action if it requires a change of barn standard. And in some barns, expect to pay more for care that adds work.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,206

    Default

    The pony is fluffy with hair. I can see every rib from 10' away, her hip bones stick out, she has no fat pads anywhere. She's skinny, as agreed by everyone that's seen her in person. Will get better photos tonight and repost them.

    I guess our situation is a little different. I'm fully self care with her. She and I live on a large QH breeding operation. I live over the barn, she has a little run and stall in 'my barn' along with 9 other stalls. I feed her, muck her stall, and do all of her care. No one cares for her, other than me. The BO and trainer take care of their stock, and there are a few people in and out to buy horses. It's pretty well private.

    Rev, I want the BO and trainer to understand the reasons behind why I care for her like I do. They're both respected and known in the local area, and I'd like them to understand instead of spreading the word that I'm certifiably nuts.

    Woodland, I spend more time on the farm than anyone else. I live there.

    Pirateer, Yes, that's more what I'm looking for. I know that the mare has lost weight and the vet and I are dealign with it. I just want some published info (like from The Horse or Horse & Rider) from a good source to share with them. Something short, concise, and informative.

    Thomas, I've talked to my vet, and we've been changing things to see if we can get some weight back on her. Will get some better photos of her tonight.

    GLS, she's on balanced hay cubes and beet pulp for forage. She can't tolerate any kind of unsoaked long stem hay. She's been on a Cushings Feed until last week when my vet wanted her put on oats. She goes out in the crappy pasture without her muzzle for a few hours for socialization, she goes out in the nice pasture with a muzzle (almost fully enclosed) for a few hours. She's sound on her diet as long as I'm *careful*. She gets no treats, no alfalfa, nothing that's not balanced into her diet. We have a vet, farrier, her diet is balanced by a dietician every year, we have an accupunturist, massage person, PT type person, etc... She has good care, and seeing her drop condition is bothering me and we're dealing with it. Treatign for ulcers, worming her with a purge and doing daily wormer. I want them to understand we can't just try things with her, everything has to be thought out and planned and we have to watch her feet for soreness.



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