Seems that not a lot of breeders here in the USA have used San Amour. Was wondering if anyone here has used him... or if you've seen any of his foals. Feel free to email me privately at email@example.com
Last edited by Cartier; Mar. 30, 2009 at 07:59 AM.
I would love to know how it goes... Btw, do you have photos of your mare? What is the rest of her pedigree? And where did you get the San Amour semen ... who carries it. Judy said that there simply wasn't enough interest in him here for her to even carry it. I am really drawn to him for Lourdess.
We had a beautiful filly from San Amour last year, at branding the Oldenburg Society awarded her premium status and comented on the elasticity of her movement - we used frozen semen and it took first time no trouble at all - she certainly seems to have inherited San Amour's wonderful gaits I would certainly recommend him as a sire. Click on the link to see photos of her http://www.tantoni.co.uk/whitemischief.php
I love him pushed the boat ou and used him with my graded hanovarian mare who is TB. First covering with an 19 year old maiden and we got an embryo. I am doing embryo transfer so my mare does not carry the foal.
Semen was excellent in fact my vets are still talking about how good it is.
Sarkozy is a bit cheaper and he had 100% mares in foal with frozen last year. I may try him if San Amour is not available next week as my mare is due to be bred again next week.
I watched all the videos on the schockemohle web site ad San Amour blew me away closely followed by Sarkozy. Both have masses of knee, elevation and hindleg.
San Amor is very appealing… did you notice the page with foals on the PSI website? (The foal page is only available on the German version of the site.) There are many videos of San Amor foals. We felt he really stamps his foals, both with the things we love about him, and unfortunately with the one concern we have as well. So we decided to wait and see how his kids look in a few years.
We too liked Sarkozy (from the narrative, it seems Schockemöhle does as well). I would guess that Sarkozy will be nice bred to big older style mares, with lots of body. Btw, we also noticed the Schockemöhle has more stallions that are 168 -169 cm… really nice stallions (like Diarado and Fuerstenball) , but not so large as in recent years…
Cartier I also am concerned Sarkozy is to light for a TB mare. Is your concerns over San Amour the width behind? To be honest I am so chuffed to get an embryo from my mare I would be happy if she had taken to a welsh cob (nothing against Welsh cobs!). If the embryo goes on to be a foal if it has 3 eyes and 2 legs I will still be jumping around for joy. Still like to know the concern with SA.
I have been warned for the next breeding of my mare this week chilled SA is like hens teeth so need a back up plan. At this stage the fertility of the stallion is more improtant than the actual horse. Only requirments
Must be standing at Schockemohle?
Must be same or less in price than San Amour?
Prefer it to be a "dressage" stallion as I will never jump
if possible a hanovarian as the mare is han graded but now willing to use anything and get her graded in to another stud book
This is why I picked Sarkozy as my second choice, due to the exceptional fertility. I really like Furst Romancier any idea about the quality of the semen? I need exceptional quality as the mare is 19, madien and failed in previous attempts 4 years ago and twice with For Compliment this year. Only San Amour took and we are only at the 15 day recipient mare scan stage. I think my mare knew he was my fav stallion.
So any advice as I know I am asking for miracles on which stallions to have a back up to San Amour?
My mare is very special and I want a foal from her
In our experience success with frozen semen is a function of the experience and success rate of the vet doing the reproductive work. There is a huge range of competence with veterinarians. We have seen breeders waste a fortune on vets who simply do not really know what they are doing and/or do not do the procedure often enough to ever get good at it. Arthur is an OBGYN… like any area of medicine, the more you do a procedure successfully, the better you are at it. We use a vet here in the USA who is excellent, with an excellent rate of success. He got our 22 year-old mare in foal on one dose of frozen semen (Lord Sinclair), successfully harvested the embryo (producing our 2005 Lord Baltimore http://logresfarm.com/Lord%20Baltimore.htm ) and then got the 22 year old mare back in foal, again on one dose of frozen (from Sandro Hit). I should mention that this mare had her last foal at 26, so we concede that she had excellent reproductive health... and we provided an optimum environment for her.
About San Amour, our concern has to do with his movement, and what we see in his foals. To be blunt, we'd like to see the horse come under themselves better and engage the rear more actively. Other than that, we like many things about San Amour.
Re Sarkozy, watch him come straight at you… there is just not a lot of him, most especially he is very narrow, for that matter, so is Sandro Hit. I think that you have to be careful that the mare you put to these boys has sufficient body (and then some).
Btw, we value a versatile horse and look for good jumping scores as well as dressage scores, which is one reason we bred to Contango in 2003 (which produced Commander http://logresfarm.com/Commander.htm). You might look at Daddy Cool, he is on Schockemöhle’s website.
If you are breeding for yourself I think you tend to be much more careful about each and every aspect of the breeding because it will directly impact performance in later years. You may well do best with some obscure stallion who perfectly suits your mare. In contrast, if you are breeding to sell, i.e. to produce a marketable foal then all you really need is a pretty foal from the hot new stallion of the moment (e.g., Sandro Hit, Rotspon, Florencio, Hotline, Quateback, Diarado etc. )… and some pretty foal photos. Actual performance years down the road doesn’t really seem to factor in to this kind of breeding / marketing. So whether the breeder is keeping the foal or selling it makes a significant difference in stallion choices.
Last edited by Cartier; May. 11, 2009 at 07:20 AM.
The ET thing is really popular in america wjile still being very new over here. I am using a specialist ET venue with 70% embryo sucess and 70% implant to foal sucess last year. They are top in the UK and it is linked to a Polo yard for I fly in the vets from Argintine. The fact they got the first embryo is amazing just hope it sticks.
The mare is good as she is not only fully graded Han but also compete to national level in affiliated british dressage. And we only atarted dressage when she was 10 cos I want to be a dressage rider! before that she raced over hurdles and did riding club stuff with me.
She is very light but excellent confirmation. If I have to go with Sarkozy and the foal ends up with both front legs coming out of one hole it will be ok. I am only 5foot 2 and have a bust hand which means I ride at grade 4 para dressage. Only had the bust arm just over a year. So for me I need something light and easy and narrow because my legs will never look like a real dressage rider
The ET place do a package using fresh or chilled 4 goes for a set price. If I had used frozen the price is per go so I can't move top that.
You had a very smart Lord Sinclair what grade does his new para rider compete at?
Well the recipient mare scanned in foal at 25 days with a little heart beat. Next scan next week will be the 42 day scan. Everything crossed for the San Amour embryo to be going strong. Was going back to San Amour couple of weekends ago. Got chilled San Amour which in itself was a amazing but T&T left the semen in France over the weekend (it was due Saterday) It arrived week ago Monday still viable but the mare had ovulated Saterday night
I just found out my mare will be bred to Sarkozy tomorrow as San Amour is busy with his German wives. So I also have everything crossed for a Sarkozy embryo next week. Be intresting if next year I have a San Amour and a Sarkozy foal out of my TB mare on the ground!
Your filly is lovely, so sorry to hear about the loss of the colt.
When I read back over this thread I can’t help but reflect upon how cautious we've become about breeding. There are so many factors, from the quality of the repro vet, to proper raising of young horses, on through to the cost of training… that are all deterrents. There are years when I would like to be done with this, and never breed again, and years when we've started with a positive affirmation that we will breed Lourdess and True Ruler. But every year something pops up and we back away. Far as I can tell the only good thing that comes out of the process of looking is that we are more and more aware of bloodlines, of what is claimed about them by all the “experts” and of what is actually produced. We have a finer tuned eye for what we want… and along the way we have managed to dodge a few popular, over-hyped, no-hit wonders. But even if one makes the perfect breeding choice, cost are just crazy out of control and local trainers are "an issue." Repro vets are also problematic. In our area we hear so many horror stories about breeders wasting tens of thousands to get nothing. I can’t help but feel that things would be different if Dr. Hurtgen were still with us.
Thanks Melissa, she is lovely. We have seen several San Amour offspring that we like, but I think we're going to go in a different direction. We know which stallion we want for True Ruler, but for Lourdess we have been back and forth until this year. But when it really gets down to it, not having Dr. Hurtgen available is a serious(negative) consideration for us, given the price of the semen we are interested in and the fact that we are breeding a maiden mare. After some consideration Arthur decided to go with a different stallion, he found one we like... but we may have missed Judy Yancey's deadline to order.