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  1. #1
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    Mar. 17, 2008
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    Default What is behind the decision to exclude "Classic" format?

    I was trying to find an article or a resource that outlines the logic behind the move from the classic format to the elimination of the classic format from recognition by the FEI. I know there has been a lot of discussion, posted throughout many threads, of opinions on the change, but I wanted to see if I could find it all laid out in one place. Does anyone know of a statement by the FEI, a research resource... anything that actually delineates the course of the decision. Does it really come down to the threat of being excluded from Olympic participation (as stated in the HBO video)?

    In my search, I came across a good blog here: http://ranchette.wordpress.com/category/safety/ (with a link to the HBO video)

    I'm having a hard time believing that it is strictly what the sport 'has to do' to continue to participate at the Olympics. If that's the case, I have to say, IMO, it's a huge mistake to adapt the sport for the sake of non-equestrians (and to the detriment of the horses and their riders). Aren't there enough internationally competitive events (e.g., **** that bring the top riders in the world together) that we can (and do) have competitions of Olympic caliber without Olympic validation? Anyway, that jumps ahead of the question, so nevermind my thoughts on it.

    I think another question revolves around a situation the YRs are facing... in area II, the YRs can compete at the * at Va Horse Center. There is an option to do the CCI* with or without steeplechase. Since our horse/rider did the CCI* (with) last Fall at Morven, to put it candidly, I've realized it is the greatest thing a horse and rider can do. Seriously, though, this is a conflict facing the YRs and others right now - you could do the classic format, but you "shouldn't" if you plan to continue eventing regularly throughout the season and want to go to the NAJYRC in July (and the classic format is no longer considered a qualifying competition). It seems (actually, it is *clear*) that riders now have to (and, luckily, have the opportunity to) decide whether they want the experience and education of the clasic format or the FEI recognition of the new and abbreviated short format.

    Anyway, I apologize for the long post (lol *short format* being the fashion of the day). I am trying to process this - the pros and cons of the short v/s classic and the entire logic (or lack thereof) behind a seemingly detrimental shift in the sport that we can either participate in or be marginalized by.



  2. #2
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    Default

    I believe it began as a matter of space, the Olympic venues couldnt provide the acreage for phases A, B and C.



  3. #3
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    Oct. 14, 2005
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    Default

    Is the FEI truly not going to recognize the long format anymore? At the upper levels people have stopped entering long formats because they don't need them to move on.



  4. #4
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    Default

    At the annual meeting we were told that FEI had made the decision to not recognize the full format any more. A long format would be considered a CCN*. I would think most of you would rather not have FEI involved. It will definitely cheaper to do one without having to pay all the FEI fees. As far as qualifying, it stinks, but I believe the USEF is working on trying to get an exception from the FEI to use the CCN* as a qualifier it just hasn't happened yet. We already have to get special exception from them every year to use the 2 CIC* as qualifiers.
    Gwen Dean
    Area II YR Coordinator
    Lost Hounds HT Secretary



  5. #5
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    Mar. 17, 2008
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    Default

    Hey! Just found this: http://equisearch.com/horses_riding_...308/index.aspx (pretty comprehensive statement by Jim Wofford in 03, though I don't have the article mentioned from January 09).
    Last edited by crittertwitter; Mar. 25, 2009 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Remove duplicate info



  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eqsiu View Post
    Is the FEI truly not going to recognize the long format anymore?
    That is correct



  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crittertwitter View Post
    eqsui, We received the word from the YR coordinators earlier this year that any classic format * will not be considered qualifying rides (not a decision made by the YRs, but a decision made by the FEI).

    Hey! Just found this: http://equisearch.com/horses_riding_...308/index.aspx (pretty comprehensive statement by Jim Wofford in 03, though I don't have the article mentioned from January 09).
    See above post
    Gwen Dean
    Area II YR Coordinator
    Lost Hounds HT Secretary



  8. #8
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    Default

    It's not really that awful, I just hope organizers will continue to offer long format at the * level. I'll likely never get there, but I know a lot of people for whom a * is a crowning achievement.



  9. #9
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    Default

    There is an article on the USEA website about those organizers banning together to keep offering the long format.
    Gwen Dean
    Area II YR Coordinator
    Lost Hounds HT Secretary



  10. #10
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    Mar. 17, 2008
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    Default

    Is it really not tragic? I see the 2 directions as choices a rider must make, one being in the professional direction, the other in the practical and well-rounded horsemanship direction. And for certain partnerships, the paths are mutually exclusive because of time and budget constraints. I *do* think it's a big deal that the classic format is only offered at the 1* level and while I'm grateful to the organizers who are committed to those, it is discouraging that the 1* level is the peak of that path of competition. And, as performance schedules are centered entirely around the short format events, fewer and fewer people participate in the classic format (and how long can organizers run classic events with low entries).

    What did folks do way back when there was only the long format and their horses needed rest after them?

    At this point, entry into a CIC, CCIwo, etc. is unavoidably a political decision. And even those who do want to support the classic format find that entering is at odds with other goals in the season. To me, it *is* significant that the classic format has been removed as a recognized step toward the peak of the sport. It turns a blind eye to depth in favor of convenience, imo.

    However. If the majority do not feel it's a 'bad' thing, then there you have it. While it seems like mid 20th century Russian politics, maybe it's not.



  11. #11
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    Bucks County, PA, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crittertwitter View Post
    What did folks do way back when there was only the long format and their horses needed rest after them?

    They rested their horses. A concept which seems more and more foreign in the modern business-driven world of eventing.
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~ Mark Twain



  12. #12
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    Sep. 21, 2000
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    Default FOLLOW THE MONEY!

    I am still surprised at how many eventers don't understand the financial underpinnings (or lack thereof) of upper level eventing. Upper level eventing requires significant external financial support from commercial sponsors and affluent individuals, either as owners or as patrons. It may be an over simplification, but the primary motivation for both companies and people to fork over large sums of money to support upper level eventing and eventers is recognition or, more crudely, bragging rights. The ownership model of upper level event horses is much more like that of racing than amateur-owner. Signing large checks is the most physical involvement owners have with the care, training and competing of their horses. The Olympic Games is the most generally recognized prestigious competition in which any human or equine athlete can participate.

    The financial business model of the Olympic Games, since the departure of Avery Brundage, is to be a marketing tool for multi-national organizations to reach a world-wide audience. Eventing, particularly in its long format, was costing too much to put on and not attracting a large enough (primarily TV) audience to justify remaining an Olympic sport. Therefore the FEI, being solely concerned with international upper level eventing, would have done anything to keep eventing in the Olympics, to keep up the cash flow necessary to support upper level eventing. If the Olympics, being the pinnacle of sport as far as the general public is concerned, agreed to the "downsizing" of the sport to keep it within the Games, there's no need to require other (lesser in the public's mind) competitions to do anything else.

    Given that most upper level eventers make their living from the sport, they also recognize the need to "keep up the cash flow" from sponsors, patrons and owners. So there was very little push-back from upper level riders when the long format was dropped.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    But all the finest horsemen out—the men to Beat the Band—
    You’ll find amongst the crowd that ride their races in the Stand



  13. #13
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    Default

    Originally Posted by crittertwitter View Post
    What did folks do way back when there was only the long format and their horses needed rest after them?

    Way back when there were no CICs and there very few events in the late fall and early spring. If our horses did a long format, there was always plenty of time to give them a good rest before beginning our season again. Now, it just seems like there is no "seasons". They just keep going, and going.
    Gwen Dean
    Area II YR Coordinator
    Lost Hounds HT Secretary



  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy View Post
    That is correct
    No, it is not. Below is a snippet of information sent on March 16, 2009 from the FEI to the NFs involved in Eventing. The full document is posted on the FEI website as well.

    Re: 2009 Rules for Eventing – Clarification and Amendment proposals

    The Eventing Committee reviewed at their recent meeting 2-3 March 2009 several clarifications & modifications partly requested by NFs to the revised 2009 Rules for Eventing in force as of 1 January 2009.

    It was agreed that the following proposal would be submitted to NFs and to the Bureau for
    approval. As timelines are tight – NFs comments on the proposed changes to be implemented immediately and for 1st July 2009 would be required by 27 March 2009 – the Bureau can then review these proposals for approval at their upcoming meeting 31 March/1 April 2009.

    A. Amendments/clarifications proposed – urgent for immediate implementation
    after the Bureau meeting for 15 April 2009.

    1. Clarification for events still wishing to organize phase A, B & C:
    Art 501.1 Definition of CCI-Three Day Event – add after 1.3 to clarify:
    “(For events organizing International CCI with Phase A, B and C, 2008 Rules for Eventing
    articles referring to Steeple-chase & roads and tracks will apply. Penalties received on phases A,B & C will not be included in FEI results or count for Qualification results)” (15 April 2009)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    If the Number 2 pencil is so popular, why is it still number 2?



  15. #15
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    Jul. 10, 2001
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    Default

    This is a cop out! All this means is, for all intense purposes, that the FEI does not recognize the CCI. Except they finally figured out how to make a person be "sort of pregnant."

    What this does is to allow the NFs to run CCIs should they chose and for those to count. But they no longer consider any penalties outside XC. (Yea! I 2 stops on steeple chase and still get a FEI qualifying score! Zippity freaking doo.) It also enables the FEI to keep its grubby hands in on the CCNs that are run here, thus not really helping us out either. So, this rule actually hinders the NFs to run efficient CCNs. What a crock.

    Reed

    Quote Originally Posted by canterlope View Post
    No, it is not. Below is a snippet of information sent on March 16, 2009 from the FEI to the NFs involved in Eventing. The full document is posted on the FEI website as well.

    Re: 2009 Rules for Eventing – Clarification and Amendment proposals

    The Eventing Committee reviewed at their recent meeting 2-3 March 2009 several clarifications & modifications partly requested by NFs to the revised 2009 Rules for Eventing in force as of 1 January 2009.

    It was agreed that the following proposal would be submitted to NFs and to the Bureau for
    approval. As timelines are tight – NFs comments on the proposed changes to be implemented immediately and for 1st July 2009 would be required by 27 March 2009 – the Bureau can then review these proposals for approval at their upcoming meeting 31 March/1 April 2009.

    A. Amendments/clarifications proposed – urgent for immediate implementation
    after the Bureau meeting for 15 April 2009.

    1. Clarification for events still wishing to organize phase A, B & C:
    Art 501.1 Definition of CCI-Three Day Event – add after 1.3 to clarify:
    “(For events organizing International CCI with Phase A, B and C, 2008 Rules for Eventing
    articles referring to Steeple-chase & roads and tracks will apply. Penalties received on phases A,B & C will not be included in FEI results or count for Qualification results)” (15 April 2009)



  16. #16
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    Default

    And for certain partnerships, the paths are mutually exclusive because of time and budget constraints.
    Which is to say that if you're a modern-day BNT, even though lip-service is given to how horses should be and are conditioned just the same for a Classic CCI vs. the new format, the fact is that you're putting the horse routinely in 2-3 "CCIs" per year, where that never used to happen with the old format.

    I mean, who has TIME to let a horse down any more, and to think about the long haul? Honestly.
    Click here before you buy.



  17. #17
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    Oct. 22, 2001
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    5,135

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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Which is to say that if you're a modern-day BNT, even though lip-service is given to how horses should be and are conditioned just the same for a Classic CCI vs. the new format, the fact is that you're putting the horse routinely in 2-3 "CCIs" per year, where that never used to happen with the old format.
    Actually, though I admit my experience is somewhat limited, but I'm pretty sure that in the long format days it was not uncommon to do two CCI's a year - one in the spring and one in the fall. Thus, you might have done Fair Hill one fall and Rolex the following spring, for example. Or go to a spring three star and then do Fair Hill. Or go up to Checkmate and then maybe Radnor. Etc. I know I groomed for folks who ran schedules like that and it didn't seem particularly out of the ordinary: the horses had a core base of fitness and seemed to do fairly well.

    As far as letting down horses on today's schedule, what I'm seeing these days is lots and lots of folks throwing horses out to let them be horses from middle of October to early December or even later, and, when bringing them back, doing mostly walking/hacking. Similarly, I see lots of horses get kicked out to a field after a spring three day (be it Rolex or Jersey) and left alone for a month to six weeks. Obviously, I'm not in every barn nor do I know everyone's programs, but I still think it's more common than not that folks are letting horses have time to be horses to the extent possible (there are some horses who just don't do all that well when kicked out for a month or so and are temperamentally better suited to start just walking/hacking earlier than others).



  18. #18
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    May. 23, 2006
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by canterlope View Post
    No, it is not. Below is a snippet of information sent on March 16, 2009 from the FEI to the NFs involved in Eventing. The full document is posted on the FEI website as well.

    Re: 2009 Rules for Eventing – Clarification and Amendment proposals

    The Eventing Committee reviewed at their recent meeting 2-3 March 2009 several clarifications & modifications partly requested by NFs to the revised 2009 Rules for Eventing in force as of 1 January 2009.

    It was agreed that the following proposal would be submitted to NFs and to the Bureau for
    approval. As timelines are tight – NFs comments on the proposed changes to be implemented immediately and for 1st July 2009 would be required by 27 March 2009 – the Bureau can then review these proposals for approval at their upcoming meeting 31 March/1 April 2009.

    A. Amendments/clarifications proposed – urgent for immediate implementation
    after the Bureau meeting for 15 April 2009.

    1. Clarification for events still wishing to organize phase A, B & C:
    Art 501.1 Definition of CCI-Three Day Event – add after 1.3 to clarify:
    “(For events organizing International CCI with Phase A, B and C, 2008 Rules for Eventing
    articles referring to Steeple-chase & roads and tracks will apply. Penalties received on phases A,B & C will not be included in FEI results or count for Qualification results)” (15 April 2009)

    pardon my $hitty pants...I did not receive this latest email from the fei or my national federation. But the RESULTS of A,B and C will not be recognized....so I stand by my comment miss smarty pants.



  19. #19
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    Jun. 9, 2003
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    Default

    GotSpots, todays horses go far more 2 or 3 star than they would have done during the LF in a year, it has doubled.
    Maybe not in the US, because there are not that many shows, but if you look at UK and European sceduals, its pretty wild.
    The CICs and CCIs short made it possible to have a very early spring season, in Portugal and Spain.
    Some of the European horses that will come to the Rolex will do a tune up 3 star 4 weeks before the Rolex.
    Look at the World Cup final how many Olympic horses did go that one.
    Its insane, so much about the shorty to be more horse friendly.

    Considering the FEI rule, I think Reed phrased it beautifull.
    One more reason to get organized over here.
    That I have no use for them, does not mean, that I don't know them and don't know how to use them.
    Caveman extraordinair



  20. #20
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    Jan. 5, 2006
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by canterlope View Post

    A. Amendments/clarifications proposed – urgent for immediate implementation
    after the Bureau meeting for 15 April 2009.

    1. Clarification for events still wishing to organize phase A, B & C:
    Art 501.1 Definition of CCI-Three Day Event – add after 1.3 to clarify:
    “(For events organizing International CCI with Phase A, B and C, 2008 Rules for Eventing
    articles referring to Steeple-chase & roads and tracks will apply. Penalties received on phases A,B & C will not be included in FEI results or count for Qualification results)” (15 April 2009)
    If the clarification goes through-- does that mean that the USEF will not use the CCN option? Or has that yet to be decided?



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