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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2009
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    1,359

    Default How calm is your giant horse. Woes of the PerchXFresian

    He is black and beautiful

    His feet are the size of the finest china dinner plates.

    He can suck a kitty cat up his nostril.

    He has the eyes of a devil.

    He knows he is BIG and uses it.

    What to do? Aren't these horses suppose to be gentle giants?
    Do you think because he is a Fresian Cross that is where the nasty blood came in?

    To walk him is like walking a mack truck. He does not repect a chain over the nose = heck he doesn't even feel it He will rear now and again but being his size rarely gets off the ground high enough. . . thankfully.

    We are all women who really are not strong enough to manuver a 2500LB triple sized horse and he knows it! None of us are afraid of him or his shanagans but he knows how to use his self to his advantage!

    What are your draft horses like? Their temperment? Are they different with you handling them to someone else handling them?

    What can be used to walk the beast?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2007
    Location
    PA
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    Default

    Our giant draft cross horse came to us as an adult, with wonderful ground manners. He's easy to handle for anyone. We don't need to use a chain on him, and I really don't think he had any idea how big he really is. I attribute all of this to whoever had him as a youngster - they did an amazing job with him.

    Unfortunately it sounds like your guy has a history of being a bully, and using his size to get his own way. How old is he? How long have you had him?
    ~ A true friend knows all there is to know about you and still likes you. -E. Hubbard



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2009
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    Default

    Hi Mia... your a lucky person having a true gentle giant! Can I ask what is your draft crossed with? I am starting to blame the Fresian in our Big guy.

    He is 7 years old. He has been at the barn for 8 months now. From day one we were told that the girl who took care of him at his old home was afraid of him and would throw his food and run. We are not afraid of him at all. Also, from day one he has known his size ... he has literally walked through the boards in the pasture, jumped a picnic table, will walk out of his stall with you in front of it ... he does not care about human bodies at all.

    We are not push overs either. That's what gets me. We have tried to teach him right from wrong but he with those devil eyes wants no part of it. SIGH!!!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 19, 2005
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    1,960

    Default

    I was told that the percherons were used as war horses (admittedly many many years ago for the french knights ;0) and hence might not (genetically) be quite as placid as one might expect of a draft horse type.



  5. #5
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    Feb. 17, 2009
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    1,359

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by omare View Post
    I was told that the percherons were used as war horses (admittedly many many years ago for the french knights ;0) and hence might not (genetically) be quite as placid as one might expect of a draft horse type.
    Grrrrreeeaaat ... I put my head down and am sorry for blaming the bad blood on the Fresian part Not placid at all He is a pretty boy though



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2009
    Location
    Rootown!
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    2,108

    Default

    We have a fresian and a fresian cross at our barn. (Crossed with Saddlebred). Both are big and both are sweet as could be. They are angels to work with and learn so quickly! The one does kick his door for attention and dump his water bucket though



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2007
    Location
    NJ
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    3,389

    Default

    mind you, i don't know a whole lot about drafts, but i always read that fresians are generally a more gentle and docile draft and that percherons were the more... uh.. less-than-docile drafts. my barn had a couple of percherons boarded a few years ago, and dear god those were scary. one was kind of cute, his name was charlie, but he was still a beast. the other one, gabe, was an absolute big black hulking devil horse. that thing was at least 19 hands. he had to be drugged when the farrier came because he was a bit loony about vets and farriers. he was scary. one time, a girl was brushing him and was holding onto his halter to keep his head down, i think she was brushing the top of his neck or something. something scared him, he flung his heaad up, pulled the gilr into the air too (fairly high!) and broke the cross ties. that was just an "oops" moment for him.

    might i ask, why don't you just sell the beast horse? i would never be able to keep something like that in my barn, if i had my own barn. then again, i'm a 5' 100 lb female so it's not like i'd stand a chance handling one
    (|--Sarah--|)

    Blitz <3 & Leap of Faith <3



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2004
    Location
    central New York State
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    2,847

    Default

    Okay I'll chime in. We have percheron/TB and Percheron/Crosses (other light breeds) here on the farm. All of them are over 16 hands with the exception of one. One of the Percheron/Tb's is my younger stallion, he'll be 7 in April. All of my percheron crosses have puppy dog personailities. They are well socalized and they are never "told" just how strong they really are. I handle my stallions to breed-I have a 17 hand Dutch stallion too.

    ALL of them have picture prefect manners because this is what is expected of them. I have also had to retrain drafts, draft crosses who are bullies like yours. I am not a big woman at all but I am strong (mentally and physically) and don't take any crap from any horse-and it does not matter the size or age of the horse.

    Consistency and the expectation of good manners, both on the ground and under saddle have to be held to strictly. Trust me it's not easy work, but even the more rouge horse learns what is expected of him/her.

    If we have a horse of any size that we are having issues with such as mentioned above, we use the Walk three steps, stand, count to three, walk. repeat. They need to stay focused on you. If necessary walk him backwards. If he rears, make him work-right there in a circle around you.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2004
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    2,823

    Default It's not the breeding, it's the training (or lack thereof)

    I must stick up for the Perchies!! I've raised my Percheron cross since he was a weanling (he's almost 6) and he is quite well behaved. We used to have a Friesian at the barn I work at. He wan't the brightest bulb, he was quite sweet and affectionate, but he'd also push down gates, and rip your arm out of it's socket to grub grass while being led in/out. Bad manners are BAD, they're not breed specific.
    "You can't blame other people. You can't always say what happened wasn't my fault, and you know what? Even if you have an excuse, shut up. "Bruce Davidson Sr.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2007
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    52

    Default

    Have to chime in — I ride a 19hh Perch, who has generally quite good ground manners. I use him as an example, because apparently when his current owner bought him (I didn't know him then), he knew EXACTLY how big he was and was a total bully, as his former owners were all scared of him. I didn't do his retraining, and he can still be pushy if you let him get away with it, but I think it's key to just be incredibly consistent and insist that he respect you/your space all the time, no matter what.

    I doubt either breed has much to do with it, it's all handling. I also used to ride a Friesian who was likewise pushy if allowed because he was big, but generally polite.

    Not putting up with any crap is a lot more important than being "strong enough" to throw him around, really. Relative to the horse, a 250 lb guy isn't that much bigger than you are — the horse is still the biggest one in the equation.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 27, 2008
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    589

    Default

    Fresian that I rode in VA was a spooky little thing.
    My ginormous warmbloods vary. Hanoverian cares about stupid little things but then runs around the Grand Prix ring like he doesnt have a care in the world. My Dutch is as brave as they come.
    Both have impeccable ground manners.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2007
    Location
    Poulsbo, WA
    Posts
    925

    Default

    I agree that this is more of a training problem, not a breed problem.

    That being said, I have had several drafts, draft crosses and Fresians in training with me. ALL have tended to be a bit on the pushy-too-much-in-your-space side before they had some ground manner work done w/ them. I have to say that the Fresians tended to need more work to correct this though - it just wasn't as easy to get them to realize that it was *really* something that they *needed* to learn (this may have just been the individuals that I worked w/ though, there is so much temperment variation w/in every breed). The most mannerly and easy to work w/ out of the Fresians/drafty types that I have trained so far was a full Shire.

    Got luck w/ your guy, there is hope! You will need to be very consistant and firm with your corrections though. Be quick to correct him - the second he BEGINS to get into your space or be pushy. When he does this, make him stop, then back him up, then turn him in a circle AWAY from you (yielding to you). Repeat if necessary. When he is refocused on you and out of your space, you can proceed with what you were doing. Carrying a whip for a while helps a lot, too. You can use it to block him from moving into your space and to help get him to back up when you ask (using the butt end, push him several times in the chest while you say 'back!').
    Blacktree Farm
    Lessons, training & sporthorse sales. Proud supporter of our buckskin German Warmblood stallion, Yeager GF.
    Blacktree Studio
    Graphic Design, Web Design & Photography.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2007
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    2,899

    Default

    Definitely a training problem. How long have you had this horse? My friend had a Percheron mare, huge and bad attitude. Friend was hesitant about discipline. She would not discipline the mare for anything, and the horse just took charge, as a horse of any breed will tend to do. I worked with the mare for a few weeks, and boy did her attitude change. Then friend took her back and bad attitude started right back up because friend insisted on treating horse like a newborn baby. (Not saying that's what you are doing, just giving you my example.) Horse even charged her in the round pen twice and she refused to use the whip she was holding because it was mean. Is there an experienced trainer you can work with?



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 29, 2008
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    3,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozone View Post
    He can suck a kitty cat up his nostril.

    FYI: It hurts when you laugh and accidentally snort beer thru your nose.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2007
    Location
    Finland and NJ
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    2,262

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven-up View Post
    FYI: It hurts when you laugh and accidentally snort beer thru your nose.
    HAHA!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2001
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,376

    Default

    I've worked with a few draft crosses now. one was a 16.2 hand Friesan/Andalusian 4 yr old stallion who had been handled almost not at all. Another is a a 17 hand coming 4 yr old Perch/Paint cross, who had been handled since birth.

    The stallion was one of the sweetest, gentlest horses I have ever worked with, though tended to be a lil hot and spooky. The perch cross knows exactly how big he is, and attempts to use it against me. I think it has more to do with the individual than the breed. But firm, consistent handling worked with both big guys. Be strong, mentally, and strong about your space.
    You know, if you took this jello, put it in a mold and froze it, you could be like look....an emerald. Dude, I'd kick some guys ass he ever tried to give me a jello ring.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2008
    Posts
    312

    Default

    I have a friesian I show in the hunters. He is the sweetest horse I have ever worked with. I am 5' and 110 pounds, but he has learned to respect me. I admit, I was a bit more severe when training him than with other horses just because he is sooo big and if he doesn't respect me I could end up dead. He doesn't have a mean bone in his body, but if I put a beginner on him, he will take advantage of them, refusing and bolting and pulling the reins out of them. The biggest problem I have with respect to his size is he has a much stronger mouth that other horses so it was hard finding a "traditional" bit with enough control. (dr. bristol slow twist)



  18. #18
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    Mar. 10, 2007
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    PA
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    Our big guy is an English Shire/QH cross. Like the OP's horse he's black. He wears a size 5 shoe on his lovely feathered feet, needs oversized everything . . . and can be reduced to a quivering mass of jelly by a plastic wrapper! Whoever started him thankfully spent the time and effort to teach him to behave.

    Honestly, I think horses of any breed/size can become bullies. I once saw a small (11.3 h) pony drag an adult woman about 700 feet by the chain over the beast's nose! It takes patient training and being consistant.
    ~ A true friend knows all there is to know about you and still likes you. -E. Hubbard



  19. #19
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    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Down on the Farm
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    3,055

    Default

    Two words... Lip Chain... at least untill he respects you.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
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    24,515

    Default

    It could be a substance abuse problem...I'd make sure he stopped snortin' cats. That can lead to attitude issues...just try getting a cat to do anything.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



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