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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 1, 2005
    Location
    FL
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    721

    Default Lease dynamics

    What control/influence can the owner have if their horse is in a 'full lease'? if you could give specifics that would be very helpful. thank you in advance.
    www.pinkhorseperformance.com
    Begin as you mean to continue.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 1, 2002
    Location
    Midwesterner in Yankeeland
    Posts
    1,622

    Default

    What does the contract say?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 1, 2005
    Location
    FL
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    721

    Default

    it doesn't...i might have to ammend it. i am hoping for some examples of other situations so i can word the contract just right.
    www.pinkhorseperformance.com
    Begin as you mean to continue.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    5,729

    Default

    You can put anything you want that your leasee is willing to sign. You are asking a very general question that most likely isn't going to give you the answers for your situation. You also risk poor free 'legal' advice from people such as me - if you are concerned about getting the contract correct then pay an equine attorney to draw one up or write it and then have an attorney go over it for you. It will be the best money spent.

    I've had leases that specified what the horse was to be fed and the frequency of feedings, the worming program they should be kept on, what they were responsible for in terms of regular vet care, how much turnout they were to get, who was allowed to handle and ride them, where they were allowed to take them etc..and then stated that if any of the conditions were not met then I had the right to come take the horse back with no legal or financial liability to myself.

    I've had other leases where I was willing to take more of a risk to place a horse and wasn't nearly so controlling and specific although I still had a tight and lengthy agreement about liability for expenses and what conditions I could take the horse back under. The agreements I've done have at least been reviewed by an attorney very familiar with the horseworld - the first one was completely written by one.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 1, 2005
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    721

    Default

    It's not so much the legal side of the issue...more personality issues I think...or 'control' issues. the owner wants to lease the horse out until sold due to financial restraints but is a bit reluctant to give up her say in things...i guess it's a bit too complicated.
    www.pinkhorseperformance.com
    Begin as you mean to continue.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2008
    Location
    Surrey, UK
    Posts
    254

    Default

    In my rather broad experiences of leased horses the owner had say over a few things:
    -What days I could ride
    -If I was required to have a lesson or not; if so, how often
    -Where the horse could be ridden and if it could be shown
    -All nutrition & non emergency vet procedures
    -What tack could be used. I could suggest changes but the owner has the final say.

    Everything else was free rein. Those details were from the most restrictive lease I ever had; most were varying degrees of that, some had no restrictions at all.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2003
    Location
    Beavercreek, OR USA
    Posts
    483

    Default Lease Contract Terms

    Here's what's in our full lease contract forms, which might help you decide what control you want to exercise:
    http://www.equinelegalsolutions.com/...ease_Agreement

    Hope this helps!
    Rachel Kosmal McCart
    Equine Legal Solutions, Inc.
    www.equinelegalsolutions.com



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2004
    Location
    Catonsville, MD
    Posts
    6,887

    Default

    Have had many half leases. Most were like the one detailed by JulesGirl.

    The best way to have direct control is to lease on the premises where horse is boarded now. Lease off the property is by definition much more independently managed by the leasor.

    Owner needs to be clear, but realistic, about her expectations. Owner cannot say: "horsee needs to have feet picked out in the following order; horsee needs to have this color saddle pads,", etc. If I as a leasor saw that kind of tendency in the behavior of the owner, that would be a big red flag for me.
    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09




  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    14,964

    Default So you will be the leasee?

    Have I got that right?

    In addition to whatever amateur legal advice you get here, I can make one suggestion that may help with your situation.

    When I leased my broodmare, the lease stipulated that I (the owner) had seen the facility where she would be kept and had approved it. A clause like this might serve your interests well since it at least asks the owner to take some responsibility for ok-ing the situation she sent her horse to.

    You may not like to give her veto power over the barn/training program you will use. But it is better to let her have a say up-front than to deal with the consequences of her deciding to not like some element of the barn you did choose.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    11,372

    Default

    If the horse is going to be leased off site, enforceability kind of comes into play. If the owner really wants to retain significant control over work schedule, farrier care, veterinary care, feed, etc, then it would be in the owner's best interest to do an onsite half lease.

    Because I am a control freak owner, that's what I do. I continue to be responsible for the day to day care, feed, farrier care, vetting, etc and can monitor the horse's condition daily. I can make all the rules and stipulations I want--from what tack may be used to what kind of riding can be done to whether or not the horse can leave the property for a trail ride, clinic, lesson or show.

    With a full lease, it's a lot like selling a horse as far as being able to manage all related care--except that you still retain ownership. Sure, you can put tons of stuff in the lease....but how can you check when the horse is offsite and you can't visit regularly?

    I personally have half leased out both of my horses and it's gone well. I have had offers for full leases on one of mine and I have to politely decline. I just feel like the horse is MY responsibility and as such, I am not willing to chance it on the care.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2007
    Posts
    441

    Default

    I have a very open lease. In fact, there really is no contract, and its not technically a lease. Its more like "SV gets to ride these horses whenever she wants, even though she only rides this one" . I farmsit in exchange for riding one of the mares. Would I rather have a contract? Yes. Am I crying a river for not having one? Heck no. I think I'm pretty lucky .



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2000
    Location
    Out of the loop
    Posts
    2,853

    Default

    When I leased a horse of mine out I used a very specific contract. It spelled out:

    1) Where the horse was to be kept and if/when/under what circumstances the horse could leave that facility, including a requirement that I give specific written permission in advance for each instance.

    2) What the leaser was permitted to do with the horse ... i.e., flatwork, jumping, trail riding ... and under what conditions (footing, trainer present, etc.).

    3) What tack the horse was to use, and what tack was out-and-out not permitted (properly fitted tack went with the horse).

    4) Whether lessons are required, with whom, how frequently, etc.

    5) Whether the leaser could show the horse, under what circumstances.

    6) Who controlled the vet, farrier, etc. (ME!) What vet could see the horse in an emergency ... and what vets COULD NOT ever see the horse under any circumstances.

    7) Requirements for either party ending lease under normal circumstances.

    8) Conditions under which the owner could end the lease under extreme (i.e., abuse or failure to follow terms of contract) circumstances.

    This was a local lease, and the contract included a "pop-in" clause basically granting me permission to check on the horse at any time.

    I modeled my lease off of one by a lovely horseowner who let me lease her charming mare for quite some time, so I can attest to the workability of the highly-detailed approach from both sides. (And I have a copy of the lease if the OP would like to use it as a model.)
    Equinox Equine Massage

    In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was in me invincible summer.
    -Albert Camus



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Boston Area
    Posts
    8,313

    Default

    I think it is very helpful to be very specific up front. It prevents confusion over issues that can arise.

    As an owner I do want to have control over many aspects of my horse simply because I want the horse back in good health.

    Quote Originally Posted by coloredhorse View Post
    When I leased a horse of mine out I used a very specific contract. It spelled out:

    1) Where the horse was to be kept and if/when/under what circumstances the horse could leave that facility, including a requirement that I give specific written permission in advance for each instance.

    2) What the leaser was permitted to do with the horse ... i.e., flatwork, jumping, trail riding ... and under what conditions (footing, trainer present, etc.).

    3) What tack the horse was to use, and what tack was out-and-out not permitted (properly fitted tack went with the horse).

    4) Whether lessons are required, with whom, how frequently, etc.

    5) Whether the leaser could show the horse, under what circumstances.

    6) Who controlled the vet, farrier, etc. (ME!) What vet could see the horse in an emergency ... and what vets COULD NOT ever see the horse under any circumstances.

    7) Requirements for either party ending lease under normal circumstances.

    8) Conditions under which the owner could end the lease under extreme (i.e., abuse or failure to follow terms of contract) circumstances.

    This was a local lease, and the contract included a "pop-in" clause basically granting me permission to check on the horse at any time.

    I modeled my lease off of one by a lovely horseowner who let me lease her charming mare for quite some time, so I can attest to the workability of the highly-detailed approach from both sides. (And I have a copy of the lease if the OP would like to use it as a model.)
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.



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