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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2003
    Location
    Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    4,253

    Default

    This makes my heart ache, so terribly sad. This is why, despite many honest offers to take my 2 lovable elderly retired schoolies (age 30 and 40) as companion horses, they are still in my barn, burning through my money every month. I hear stories like this and it makes me so reluctant to sell any of my schoolies who are currently sound and useful, because they are old and require maintenance and a $2K-$5K horse isn't far from being disposable to many owners who start off with the best of intentions. Just plain sucks.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX, or thereabouts
    Posts
    696

    Unhappy

    I'm not a slaughter-debating type on COTH. I respect differing views, and generally appreciate county's input but think he's a bit off the mark with his comment here.

    In this instance, the point is that his PEOPLE failed Harry. Not the slaughter plant or the sale. Let it rest there, guys, to honor an old trooper who did his job well and trusted humans for a long time but ended up in a sad place.

    I hope the holder of the first-refusal contract DOES SUE the person who violated that legal contract. Aside from doing the wrong thing by the horse, the most recent owner breached an apparently legal agreement. There are times I wish I was a lawyer....
    "And now," cried Max, "let the wild rumpus start!"



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2007
    Location
    My own little world
    Posts
    243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arabhorse2 View Post
    Exactly, County.

    To paraphrase the quote by kill buyer Manny Phelps: I mop up. I clean up the mess left by morons. I'm just the garbage man. I'm not the one who put the horse out with the trash.

    It's the owners who are responsible for putting Harry out with the trash.

    To blame the kill buyers or slaughter system is pointing fingers at the wrong people. It's irresponsible, asshat owners who caused Harry to be turned into horse steaks, not the slaughter industry.

    Agree 100%. Why does everyone blame slaughter and kill buyers for this. It has to start somewhere. It starts with owner!

    I personally think there is a need for slaughter in the US. I also think we need to focus our attention on making transport and the final act more humane, not end it all together.

    JMO.

    Sad that this poor old guy ended up someones trash....



  4. #24

    Default

    So what do you think I'm off about? No one in the slaughter industry made that horse show up there.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul. 27, 2007
    Location
    Behind the Orange Curtain
    Posts
    9,694

    Default

    I think the absolute best way to prevent this sort of thing from happening is to cease imagining that there is some sort of magical "retirement home" for horses with limited usefulness. If a horse has served you well and you want to be sure of a good life, there's only one way to make that happen.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2000
    Posts
    5,054

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arabhorse2 View Post
    Exactly, County.

    To paraphrase the quote by kill buyer Manny Phelps: I mop up. I clean up the mess left by morons. I'm just the garbage man. I'm not the one who put the horse out with the trash.

    It's the owners who are responsible for putting Harry out with the trash.

    To blame the kill buyers or slaughter system is pointing fingers at the wrong people. It's irresponsible, asshat owners who caused Harry to be turned into horse steaks, not the slaughter industry.

    I am completely against Horse Slaughter....BUT....this is one of the best and most pointed/direct posts I have come across...This says it all..thanks arabhorse2!
    "All life is precious"
    Sophie Scholl



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FatPalomino View Post
    JSawn, I've talked with some folks from the local USDA office that are very familiar with the NAIS system. From the little I know, I believe you are very right. It wouldn't be helpful in a case like this.
    FP - I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. NAIS would not have helped this horse. It won't help any of our horses.

    I'm not opposed to horse slaughter but if a person doesn't want their horse to end up there, we need to figure out ways to keep them out of that pipeline, and also out of the hands of people that would abuse or misuse them.

    The person responsible for this animals fate is the individual who didn't honor the contract. Damn that person to hell as far as I'm concerned.

    A pox on owners who don't check on their free leases and giveaways, too. (not saying this person didn't... only that some people don't)



  8. #28

    Default

    Thats why when I sell a horse I sell 100% of it. When I buy a horse I buy 100% of it. Leaves no doubts as to who the legal owner is and what they can do with it legally.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Location
    Lorena, Texas
    Posts
    4,114

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    I have to respond to the "tracking program" comment and the "program" you refer to.

    NAIS is NOT intended to find your lost or stolen horse, ok? If anyone wants to have their horse tracked - have a microchip inserted - one that brings up the information needed to contact the owner. Or brand it. By all means do something.
    Thank you, thank you for posting that! NAIS is all about disease control (supposedly.. I'm not really buying it all). It isn't there to help track animals, help recover lost/stolen/sold animals, etc.

    As someone else said, if you want to make sure your old, retired horse has a place to live out his days, YOU have to be willing to give it to him. Our rescue has about 15 unridable, companion only horses available for adoption. Some have been available 2-3 years. It is RARE someone comes along looking for a horse to feed, clean up after, and just pet (but never ride). I love the ones who do come along, but they're few and far between. I keep seeing people talk about finding a home for their unrdiable horse... and I don't know where they think that home is going to come from.
    Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

    Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2004
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    306

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrey View Post
    I think the absolute best way to prevent this sort of thing from happening is to cease imagining that there is some sort of magical "retirement home" for horses with limited usefulness. If a horse has served you well and you want to be sure of a good life, there's only one way to make that happen.
    Nail, Hammer, Head.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I'm not an outlier; I just haven't found my distribution yet!



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,200

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    I'm not opposed to horse slaughter but if a person doesn't want their horse to end up there, we need to figure out ways to keep them out of that pipeline, and also out of the hands of people that would abuse or misuse them.
    If we could do that, I expect many of the people opposed to slaughter would reconsider their opinion.

    I'm opposed for that reason and because we don't seem to be able to regulate humane conditions for equine slaughter on this continent. From what I read from my Net friends in the UK, it's done very differently there.

    I didn't know the horse in question, but I have a soft spot for old horses and old schoolies in particular. I'm so sad to read of Harry's fate.



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2006
    Location
    Dallas, NC
    Posts
    2,339

    Default

    It's crap like this that makes me sick. It's also why I wont give away Dusty, free lease to someone local, or someone who wants to just ride him, I want him to stay here. He's totally and completely blind (I lovingly call him Roomba or Pinball) and he is still ridable, over about any type of trail, rocky, trees fallen across, hilly, he does it all.

    I also have my old 28 year old gimpy heavey mare that I bought now 3 years ago from someone for 450.00 just to get her away from him. She was a rack of bones with a 6 week old colt at her side. He lost his job so stopped feeding her. She was in a stall with no sawdust. He said the baby pulled her down. Jesh you could see every bone in her body, her neck was a stick and you could stick both your fists side by side between her back thighs, hip bones jutting out and could could count her vertebra.

    She doesn't get ridden, is still busy flirting and talking to the geldings and she gimps around telling me what to do while she eats her grass and feed and suppliments, LOL! Crotchity old biddy!!

    I just can't stand the thought of her or Dusty going to slaughter!!
    I want a signature but I have nothing original to say except: "STHU and RIDE!!!

    Wonderful COTHER's I've met: belleellis, stefffic, snkstacres and janedoe726.



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2000
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    14,667

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    Microchipping will not prevent a horse from going to slaughter. They only check for microchips AFTER the horse is slaughtered to prevent it from contaminating the meat.

    I would hope the dealer who bought the horse, saying it was going to a good home is prosecuted.
    Hillary Clinton - proven liar, cheat, traitor and defender of rapists! Anyone but Hillary 2016! https://www.facebook.com/AntiHillary2016



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    14,323

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    Quote Originally Posted by arabhorse2 View Post
    Exactly, County.

    To paraphrase the quote by kill buyer Manny Phelps: I mop up. I clean up the mess left by morons. I'm just the garbage man. I'm not the one who put the horse out with the trash.

    It's the owners who are responsible for putting Harry out with the trash.

    To blame the kill buyers or slaughter system is pointing fingers at the wrong people. It's irresponsible, asshat owners who caused Harry to be turned into horse steaks, not the slaughter industry.
    I 100% agree. Very well said Arabhorse.



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2004
    Location
    Rolling hills of Virginny
    Posts
    6,025

    Default

    Like JSwan, I took on an oldster for free when he was 19 y/o.

    Not once has Mack's previous owner even bothered to call me to see how he's doing, even though I encouraged her to when I agreed to take him.

    I could have sent that horse to auction/slaughter, and she'd never know. The only thing she was concerned about was getting him off her feed bill, apparently.

    I'm not angry, just find it interesting that she "loved him soooo much" and yet has never been curious as to how he's doing.

    He's 23 y/o now, and retired. He's crotchety, vocal, and has some trouble with his hocks, for which he gets supplements to keep him comfortable. He's with me for the rest of his life, however long that will be.

    The only way to make sure a horse of yours doesn't meet the same fate as Harry, is to keep them. Otherwise, things can and do happen.
    Homeopathy claims water can cure you since it once held medicine. That's like saying you can get sustenance from an empty plate because it once held food.



  16. #36

    Default

    I've taken 6 brood mares that have been given to me over the years and turned away to many to count. Of the 6 I took only one person ever kept track of it that one was from a very good freind and I had agreed to keep the mare till the end. The other 5 I sold when I no longer could use them in our breeding program. But I had never agreed to keep them for ever
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2004
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    1,561

    Default

    What a terrible story, hopefully the whole story will come out on this thread and the person who put poor harry at the auction will be named.
    "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" Richard Bach



  18. #38
    Join Date
    May. 26, 2005
    Location
    Central Maine
    Posts
    411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arabhorse2 View Post
    Exactly, County.

    To paraphrase the quote by kill buyer Manny Phelps: I mop up. I clean up the mess left by morons. I'm just the garbage man. I'm not the one who put the horse out with the trash.

    It's the owners who are responsible for putting Harry out with the trash.

    To blame the kill buyers or slaughter system is pointing fingers at the wrong people. It's irresponsible, asshat owners who caused Harry to be turned into horse steaks, not the slaughter industry.
    I don't want to derail Harry's thread, but I think it's important that people don't think that killerbuyers are always the helpful, altruistic members of the horse industry that some people would have us believe. This is from TB Friends blog today; which is also where the above quote comes from. Not the same KB; but these guys (and women) can be very sly at what they do:





    Wednesday, March 11th... 35 degrees right now. Our dog Jewels refuses to help grain the barn. I say come on Jewels, time for chores, and he pretends to be asleep. Good help is hard to find. 135 horses on this silly ranch. You could toss a saddle in the air and it would land on a horse.

    At the ranch where I have employment a gelding we call Prank, and Prank has been for sale since January. His owner can no longer afford board. So the owner advertised Prank on the internet for $1,000.00 and there were no replies. The owner dropped his price to FREE, and there was a reply from horse killer Wade Giles. What a scam. Horse killer Wade Giles faked being nice. Told the owner Prank would be welcomed as a new family member.

    Enter a teenage girl who also boards at this same ranch. Right off she knew something was wrong. Told the owner of Prank be careful. This guy smells like a horse killer. I got a call from the teenage girl on Monday afternoon. When I arrived at the ranch horse killer Wade Giles sees me and says oh crap. Gets in his red truck with a shiny silver compact stock trailer and drives away. Prank was saved from slaughter by a very sharp teenage girl.

    If you have your horse advertised on the internet for cheap, horse killers can fool you. They show up with their wife, with kids, take pictures, and dance with glee. A bag of carrots for the horse, and they say to the owner your horse will be loved for the rest of his life. Owners are relieved, even grateful. We know of several owners who gave horse killers cash right on the spot. They said take this cash to help pay for his feet, his feed, his teeth, whatever. The killers not only have a new horse, but extra cash as well.

    A day or two later, and your horse is sold to a slaughter plant in Mexico or Canada. The ultimate in deception.
    .

    Enjoy your frozen mud Wednesday, and be sure to hug your horses.

    Joe
    Proud Anti-Slaughter Handwringer http://www.tbfriends.com/



  19. #39
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2005
    Location
    With a dog named Rockstar
    Posts
    2,997

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowgirljenn View Post
    As someone else said, if you want to make sure your old, retired horse has a place to live out his days, YOU have to be willing to give it to him.
    I always say to owners who are asking to surrender their old horse....
    "You obviously Love your horse and have had him for so many years. If you, the person who loves him the very most in the whole world can't afford to keep him, how likely do you think that a stranger to the horse will?"

    In Harry's case, it was very clearly PEOPLE who failed him. I can't say a lot about the situation, but there were lots and lots of people who cared about him that had no idea what happened, until it was too late. These people had absolutely no indication that Harry should have ever wound up in danger. Believe me, this isn't the end of Harry's story. Hopefully it is just the beginning, and can help MANY other horses, in honor of Harry.

    In this case, the dealer who shipped the horse purchased him at New Holland and had absolutely no inclination of Harry's history and that people he passed through after he left the ones who loved him. The dealer has been very cooperative and promptly, even double checked, to make sure there was no way to get Harry back. They very clearly remember him, the big guy with one eye.

    I will promise you, if there is a way that those of us "in the pipeline" could track horses, we would find so many horses like Harry. Horses that someone really cared for and would take back in a moment if the horse was in trouble. Often the horse passes through multiple hands quickly. Almost every time, it's a deceitful (or sometimes naive) PERSON who fails these horses. Remember, my first ever trip to the feedlot found a skinny, foundered, and dying Champion Lodge 2000 miles away from home only TWELVE weeks after he left the backstretch of Santa Anita.

    I wish I had the time/resources to run every tattoo, and the QH papers, on every horse we found at auctions and feedlots, and contact their previous owners and breeders.



  20. #40

    Default

    Theres no doubt some meat buyers are like that but then so are some trainers, breeders, and general horse owners. But I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to figure out if a horse has no value odds are good the only one that wants it may be the meat man.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



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