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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2007
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    820

    Default USAEA

    Okay, flame suit on, and know this is FULL of holes, but let's see:

    The United States Amatuer Eventing Association:

    Annual dues:$45
    To encourage the amatuer in the sport of eventing.

    Competitions (mostly schooling) included.

    All areas can join - fee?

    Members are encouraged to solicit sponsors for events - keep entry fees down - maybe year end award for number of sponsors gathered? Local businesses encouraged

    Organizer award - most encouraging xc, best dressage area, best show jumping - award could be cash for the organizer

    Annual volunteer awards
    Whenever someone volunteers, they get a $5 chit for their entry at any USAEA event
    Long format BN, N, T - where available - maybe slightly reconfigure long format - with emphasis on a fit horse to be tested somehow
    Successfully complete 3 ht's per year with no jump/time faults - certificate
    "Developed horse" award - if you brought a horse from nothing - back yard, ottb, etc
    Local CTA's could participate
    New venue awards - if you brought a new venue - convinced someone to hold an event on their property!

    Again, this is just pure green light thinking stuff, and has lots of logistical nightmares in it - but could it be viable?



  2. #2

    Default

    First task - spell "amateur" correctly!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 27, 2006
    Posts
    484

    Default

    Why reinvent the wheel? If there is one in your area, why not just join and support your local Combined Training Association? All these ideas can be incorporated much easier at the local level as well. My family has membership in the Maryland Combined Training Association. MCTA sponsors both USEA recognized and unrecognized events...and points are earned in both for end of the year awards. Why not try to make existing organizations better, throw your support their way, get your ideas incorporated, and do lots of volunteering to help make the difference in your local eventing scene?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2001
    Location
    Sheridan, IN
    Posts
    3,433

    Default

    Sorry, I think you're way underestimating the amount of effort this sort of thing takes.

    Who is going to do your books? Non profit status? Horse/rider recording? Competition evaluation? Keep the rules made and enforced? Mediate disputes? Compliance to safety? Compliance to standards?

    I think the USEA takes a lot of undeserved static, given the factions they have to work with, and given the rapidity of change in the sport I think they've done a credible job (though thankless).

    Instead of splintering off, why not put your ideas together, work with your local club to see if they're viable, and if they are present to the USEA to see if it could be instituted nation wide.

    I can't help of thinking of the organizations that have splinter groups and how poorly most of them have fared.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2005
    Location
    Elmwood, Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,367

    Default

    Two additions. Add a level below BN, there is a need for those starting out
    to have really low level opportunities. Maybe it isn't real eventing, but it should
    serve to guide the competitors into the eventing world.

    What would happen if there were a rule that nobody could have any coaching
    while mounted? Might need to except BN and below so those starting can
    have a safe trip. It would still allow advice for course walks but none for
    warm ups.
    Robin from Dancing Horse Hill
    Elmwood, Wisconsin



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2007
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    820

    Default Knew it was full of holes...

    Ok- so sorry about the spelling - forgot to hit the spell check.

    I have volunteered pretty extensively, in fact years ago, when I lived in MD, volunteered A LOT for MCTA, and helped institute ideas.

    Anyway, I just thought I would throw it out there in light of all the PRO vs AMMY stuff going on.

    Wasn't thinking about the overlap with local CTA's - and it would be as I said a possible logistical nightmare.

    I in no way want to take away from the USEA, have been a member for more than 25 years, just wanted to throw the idea out.

    Just feeling much like a smurf today.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2007
    Location
    Napanee ON
    Posts
    3,887

    Default

    Come on people, all ideas have to start somewhere!

    You ahould look into the Riding Club events they have in the UK, sounds dort of like this idea.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2005
    Posts
    1,401

    Default

    I am so tired of the 'us' v. 'them' mentality! I am an ammy with a real job. I compete a LOT at recognized events throughout Area II every year. I have never, ever felt at an event that I was somehow disadvantaged by the pros or that I was having a bad experience at an event because of something that the pros advocated. The organizers have FAR more influence in my life, at an event, than anyone else - so if I don't like the way a course is designed, or whatever, I just choose not to return to that event. And I benefit every day from the wealth of experience that many of the pros I know share openly and willingly with me. I honestly don't get it.

    I also don't get how it is that people who are learning to trot 18" fences think they should be doing steeplechase. First you learn to walk and then you learn to run.

    The push to splinter an ammy group off is going to ruin the sport. It is not the pros. And it isn't necessary - because if you feel disenfranchised, you can always do the unrecognized. There are a million of them. Vote with your wallet and be done with it.
    Treat Jockey for Spellbound and Smidgeon



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2008
    Posts
    1,804

    Default USEA is not the Enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
    I am so tired of the 'us' v. 'them' mentality! I am an ammy with a real job. I compete a LOT at recognized events throughout Area II every year. I have never, ever felt at an event that I was somehow disadvantaged by the pros or that I was having a bad experience at an event because of something that the pros advocated. The organizers have FAR more influence in my life, at an event, than anyone else - so if I don't like the way a course is designed, or whatever, I just choose not to return to that event. And I benefit every day from the wealth of experience that many of the pros I know share openly and willingly with me. I honestly don't get it.

    I also don't get how it is that people who are learning to trot 18" fences think they should be doing steeplechase. First you learn to walk and then you learn to run.

    The push to splinter an ammy group off is going to ruin the sport. It is not the pros. And it isn't necessary - because if you feel disenfranchised, you can always do the unrecognized. There are a million of them. Vote with your wallet and be done with it.

    Very well said Speedy and LAZ too.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2007
    Location
    Somewhere between Here and There
    Posts
    1,892

    Default

    Actually, I think there does need to be some group to support the interests of ammy eventers. It is becoming obvious that the USEF and USEA will not stand up for us, despite the fact that we make up about 90% of their organizations. I don't necessarily think a "splinter group" that does the same thing as the USEA but for ammies is the answer... but all ideas have to start with something. I do think that there needs to be some sort of grass roots movement to let those in the organizations who are so concerned with catering to the PHC and PRO that they forget we even exist, know we are here and have a voice. Something to make them realize they are disenfranchising their base, and that without us there will be nothing. Heck you can make the emblem a smurf



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2007
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    820

    Default nevermind

    Just wanted to see what people thought.

    Again, as I said, I am in NO WAY taking anything away from the USEA - I was not advocating an "us vs them" mentality with the Pros - I also benefit greatly from the pros. Nor, competing in only unrecognized vs recognized.

    As I wrote in the post, I have been a member for 25 years, and in that time have done a bit of competing-(only up through training)/volunteering/groomed for ULRs, etc.

    I meant this only as a positive avenue for the Ammies- that's all.

    It does not mean I felt abused by the pros, the USEA, whatever. I just wanted to float out an idea I thought might be a positive for the ammies.

    I know it might and could very likely start as a logistical problem as I said in my post.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2004
    Location
    PacificNorthwest
    Posts
    265

    Default USAEA? Adult Riders

    This sounds a lot like the USEA Adult riders program. At least how it is working in my area.

    This area seems to be the "Poster Child" for other areas. The AR program successfully runs camps, derby programs, BNR Clinics and totes a hospitality tent to most area events every one is invited even "Pros" are invited to the party.

    Makes me wonder the need for yet another organization especially since the USEA now collects the Area Adult rider dues and raised the cost to boot!

    But NO you cant have out "Leader" not sharing the gold



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2006
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    737

    Default

    I think the USEA does a fine job as it is...and if you win at the USAmateurEA, what have you accomplished? In the words of Bruce Davidson from a video very long ago..."You're the best of the worst, hooray for you"
    BN is low enough, and easy enough, and if you go lower, more people who are not ready to be in the warm up,much less out of cross country, will cause more problems.
    Keep the standards where they are. Eventing is not supposed to be dumbed down so that any person with a horse can get a ribbon, no matter how inexperienced and unprepared they are....it is, in my opinion, about personal bests, and about striving for good.
    Keeping coaches out of the warm up? How Scary! Most riders with any sense of what is going on can't WAIT to get out of novice warm up, and get into a training warm up where folks have the skills and wherewithall to be in control.

    In another world, in which my peers and I strive for end of the year awards, someone suggested that once someone has won, they should step down so someone else had a "chance to win" A dear friend of mine, who IS a winner replied "Everyone DOES have a chance...just get as good at the winners"

    Not flaming you, just stating my own opinions as to why it is not a good idea break down and fix what isn't broken.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 25, 2004
    Location
    Carolinas
    Posts
    4,448

    Default

    Mach Two I think the USEA does a fine job as it is...and if you win at the USAmateurEA, what have you accomplished? In the words of Bruce Davidson from a video very long ago..."You're the best of the worst, hooray for you"
    BN is low enough, and easy enough, and if you go lower, more people who are not ready to be in the warm up,much less out of cross country, will cause more problems.
    Keep the standards where they are. Eventing is not supposed to be dumbed down so that any person with a horse can get a ribbon, no matter how inexperienced and unprepared they are....it is, in my opinion, about personal bests, and about striving for good.
    Keeping coaches out of the warm up? How Scary! Most riders with any sense of what is going on can't WAIT to get out of novice warm up, and get into a training warm up where folks have the skills and wherewithall to be in control.

    In another world, in which my peers and I strive for end of the year awards, someone suggested that once someone has won, they should step down so someone else had a "chance to win" A dear friend of mine, who IS a winner replied "Everyone DOES have a chance...just get as good at the winners"

    Not flaming you, just stating my own opinions as to why it is not a good idea break down and fix what isn't broken.


    Agree completely.

    FYI - It is time to get away from 'us' vs 'them' (whoever you deem 'them' to be). We need to work together or this sport will be no more.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2008
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
    I am so tired of the 'us' v. 'them' mentality! I am an ammy with a real job. I compete a LOT at recognized events throughout Area II every year. I have never, ever felt at an event that I was somehow disadvantaged by the pros or that I was having a bad experience at an event because of something that the pros advocated. The organizers have FAR more influence in my life, at an event, than anyone else - so if I don't like the way a course is designed, or whatever, I just choose not to return to that event. And I benefit every day from the wealth of experience that many of the pros I know share openly and willingly with me. I honestly don't get it.

    I also don't get how it is that people who are learning to trot 18" fences think they should be doing steeplechase. First you learn to walk and then you learn to run.

    The push to splinter an ammy group off is going to ruin the sport. It is not the pros. And it isn't necessary - because if you feel disenfranchised, you can always do the unrecognized. There are a million of them. Vote with your wallet and be done with it.

    I completely agree, well said!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 18, 2008
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    Posts
    435

    Default

    I go to USEA events without a coach--always have. Sometimes it's frustrating when a coach "claims" an area or a jump, but usually I try to listen to what's going on and pick and choose what to apply, and most are good about sharing.

    I think what the OP wants isn't to dumb down the sport, but rather to make the voices of the ammy heard. An ammy equivalent of the PHC might not be a bad thing--someone who makes proposals for rule changes (like the PHC does) or who can give the USEA the counter-arguments to the PHC. This can work both ways, as we might have ideas the pros would understand aren't viable. The two groups can defend the interests of their group and work together to find equitable solutions, help promote better understanding of each others' constituencies, and foster am atmosphere of common goals and working together.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2007
    Location
    Boerne, Texas
    Posts
    826

    Default

    Wow Mach Two, I will choose not to be insulted and ignore the suggestion that Novice level is full of people with few skills and little sense of what is going on. I do believe the organization proposed would be reinventing the wheel. However I believe we might consider and Ammy group like the PHC to express our opinions. I need to join adult amateur this year. Do they provide input to USEA like PHC does?



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct. 22, 2001
    Posts
    5,084

    Default

    Yes, the Adult Riders absolutely provide imput to USEA and are very active in the organization. They are organized by Area, and I believe each Area Council has an Adult Riders representative as well. Plus, Adult Riders can be alot of fun, too. I know in some areas, they often will have a tent or a banner out at events and the margarita mixer and grill set out - it can be a fun way to hang out with other riders, particularly if you're showing by yourself. Moreover, have you ever looked at the composition of the board of USEA? The amateurs either outweigh or balance the professionals; heck, the president is a devoted amateur rider, who competes regularly, and has (as an amateur) taken horses thorough advanced. And look at a program like the AECs: it is fundamentally targeted at amateurs in a lot of ways, particularly at the lower levels. There are amateur or essetially amateur divisions, which get big heaping prizes, and there's been alot of emphasis placed on helping amateurs qualify and compete.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2006
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    737

    Default

    Got Spots is also GotItRight...the adult amateur programs are terrific, and geared towards working with what is already working.
    And sorry if I offended any riders who show only at Novice...but that is where (that and BN) the beginner riders who are scared to death of the 2 foot 6 warmup fences, who get frazzled by the hub-bub of warm up, and don't know they can't jump warm up fences backwards get themselves, their horses, and other riders who DO know what they are doing into trouble.I didn't say all riders in the novice warmup were that way....but it is where those dangerous combinations of green horses and riders usually start out. So take away coaches in the warm up because they are pros?? Keep it all "amateur?"

    I have known many wonderful riders who were amateurs their whole eventing careers, because they did not need to train outside horses in order to be able to event. I've known many who were more experienced and more seasoned and more successful than some of the "pros". It's such a hard line to define, actually, when you consider that not that many years ago, the Olympics were for "amateur athletes" only....yet, none of the USET teams were made up of all amateurs.
    There seems to be quite enough division...and I also hate to see the "us against them " arguments.

    I think the Original Poster was thinking out loud...as in "what do you think of unifying amteurs?" or something to that effect...and I DO think the Adult programs have a very good handle on that.



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